Author Topic: Spoofing caller id?  (Read 2862 times)

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jezter6

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Spoofing caller id?
« on: March 03, 2010 06:53:58 PM »
I got a call from FNCB in Reno on my cell phone today. The caller ID had my local area code, so I (stupidly) picked up and got their auto-dialer "if you are jezter6, press 1 to speak to an operator, or call back at 800-824-6191. If this is not jezter6, please press 2".

I hung up because I'm at work and didn't feel like yelling at these people so I googled their number and found them. They'be been calling my phone from another 775 number for weeks now (which I googled and came up with FNCB as well).

I swear I remember it not being legal for them to spoof the callerID as if they were from my area code when they're in Nevada. Am I right on this?

UpwardMomentum

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Can you remove "Express Consent?"
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010 05:28:29 AM »
In May 20, 2008, the US District Court for the Northern District of California ruled that creditors can't use the auto-dialers/pre-recorded messages to call consumers' cell phones because of discrepancies with respect to the definition of "consent." See Leckler vs. CashCall (2008 WL 2123307 (N.D. Cal, May 20, 2008). At this point, things were in our favor again.

Then, in November of 2008, the same court that just helped us out voided their decision because they allegedly didn't have proper jurisdiction. See http://www.pierceatwood.com/showarticle.asp?Show=690

It's my understanding even the new ruling allows people who gave "express consent" to withdraw that consent. But how do we withdraw "express consent" if we initially gave it just by including the cell #?? Do we have wait til' they call us and then inform them that we're recording the call and then revoke the express consent (that we didn't even know we gave)? Do we have to do it in writing? I would guess that there are drone collection agents that would disregard this assertion because they don't have a lot of legal knowledge and maybe this could set us up to get money under the TCPA later. Does anyone know how to officially and legally withdraw our express consent?


maylaur

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Re: Can you remove "Express Consent?"
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010 12:43:45 PM »
decision because they allegedly didn't have proper jurisdiction. See http://www.pierceatwood.com/showarticle.asp?Show=690

But how do we withdraw "express consent" if we initially gave it just by including the cell #?? Do we have wait til' they call us and then inform them that we're recording the call and then revoke the express consent (that we didn't even know we gave)? Do we have to do it in writing? I would guess that there are drone collection agents that would disregard this assertion because they don't have a lot of legal knowledge and maybe this could set us up to get money under the TCPA later. Does anyone know how to officially and legally withdraw our express consent?

Send them a letter via CMRRR stating that you are rescinding consent to calling your cell phone.  If you want to cover all the bases, list the cell phone number(s) you are no longer wanting them to call.  That way they can't claim they didn't know which number(s) they are no longer allowed to call.
Anything I post is from my own personal experience, and might not apply to your own situation. 
I do not offer legal advice; for that, please consult a lawyer.

UpwardMomentum

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010 05:45:17 AM »
Thanks for the information maylaur. I had previously sent the idiotic lender a "do not call" letter alleging a violation of the FDCPA for annoying and harassing calls and they disregarded it and kept calling.

But based on your suggestion, if I have a copy of the withdrawal of my consent and send it CM w/RR, and have signature/delivery confirmation, they'd have a hard time denying that I ever withdrew my consent. Thanks again.

maylaur

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010 10:43:03 AM »
Thanks for the information maylaur. I had previously sent the idiotic lender a "do not call" letter alleging a violation of the FDCPA for annoying and harassing calls and they disregarded it and kept calling.

But based on your suggestion, if I have a copy of the withdrawal of my consent and send it CM w/RR, and have signature/delivery confirmation, they'd have a hard time denying that I ever withdrew my consent. Thanks again.

Are the calls from the original creditor?  If they are, then FDCPA does not apply. 
Anything I post is from my own personal experience, and might not apply to your own situation. 
I do not offer legal advice; for that, please consult a lawyer.

maylaur

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010 10:57:22 AM »
I got a call from FNCB in Reno on my cell phone today. The caller ID had my local area code, so I (stupidly) picked up and got their auto-dialer "if you are jezter6, press 1 to speak to an operator, or call back at 800-824-6191. If this is not jezter6, please press 2".

I hung up because I'm at work and didn't feel like yelling at these people so I googled their number and found them. They'be been calling my phone from another 775 number for weeks now (which I googled and came up with FNCB as well).

I swear I remember it not being legal for them to spoof the callerID as if they were from my area code when they're in Nevada. Am I right on this?

jezter6, this is from the FCC's website regarding spoofing:

Quote
Caller ID service, however, is susceptible to fraud. Using a practice known as “caller ID spoofing,” disreputable parties can deliberately falsify the telephone number relayed as the Caller ID number to disguise the identity and originator of the call. Congress is currently considering new laws that would make this practice a crime and permit law enforcement authorities to take action against spoofers.
Anything I post is from my own personal experience, and might not apply to your own situation. 
I do not offer legal advice; for that, please consult a lawyer.

flyinbroke

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2010 03:04:46 PM »
In other words, it is currently OK to spoof. I have had them spoof with local numbers...I Googled a couple of them and got a local high school and a bottom feeding car sales lot.  :vbrofl: I also get a lot of "private" and "blocked" numbers and while in TX you cannot call anonymously it does not specify whether caller ID falls under the same guidelines.

Midwest_IT

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2010 03:19:23 PM »
jezter6, this is from the FCC's website regarding spoofing:

I still have ALOT to learn about how to collect on various violations, but I'm curious about something.  I read the reference link on spoofing/ callerid.  In this, it says that

"For violations of these rules, the FCC can seek a monetary fine. If the violator is not an FCC licensee, the FCC must first issue a warning and the telemarketer may be fined only for violations committed after the warning"

Does that mean that a consumer can not pursue their own individual claim, that they must file through the FCC and wait hoping they will send you any $ for the violation? 

Kitten

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2010 03:22:45 PM »
In other words, it is currently OK to spoof.

No, it says that you can't be arrested for spoofing unless it is made a crime. There are plenty of things we can sue a collector for that can't land the collector in jail, and spoofing is just one of them.

Savsquatch

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2011 03:05:17 AM »
I heard that a few states have passed laws on spoofing where you have a legal right to go after the spliced for specified amounts.

CleaningUp

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2011 03:10:55 AM »

There is a new federal statute

http://www.telecomlawmonitor.com/2011/01/articles/compliance-filing/rules-against-caller-id-spoofing-to-tighten/


Note that there must be INTENT TO DEFRAUD.

FTC rules are due in June 2011.  They may or may not address debt collectors. However, given the way the statute is written, it may be a stretch to draw a collector under the new law.


kevinmanheim

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011 06:44:35 AM »
Does your state have a deceptive and unfair business practices statute? You could sue under that for the call spoofing.

Spoofing the number is an attempt to mislead you.

kevinmanheim

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012 09:47:32 PM »
There is a new federal statute

http://www.telecomlawmonitor.com/2011/01/articles/compliance-filing/rules-against-caller-id-spoofing-to-tighten/


Note that there must be INTENT TO DEFRAUD.

FTC rules are due in June 2011.  They may or may not address debt collectors. However, given the way the statute is written, it may be a stretch to draw a collector under the new law.
Any updates on this?

The FTC rules were implemented in June 2011. Rules: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-11-100A1.pdf

Anyone seen a FDCPA suit that tried to use this new law as reason for a FDCPA claim?

HeadsUp

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Re: Can you remove "Express Consent?"
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2012 07:58:47 PM »
Send them a letter via CMRRR stating that you are rescinding consent to calling your cell phone.  If you want to cover all the bases, list the cell phone number(s) you are no longer wanting them to call.  That way they can't claim they didn't know which number(s) they are no longer allowed to call.

"Send them a letter via CMRRR stating that you are rescinding consent to calling your cell phone"

Now, what if you never gave them consent to call your pay as you go cell phone in the first place?

For example, say you got the pay as you go cell phone years after the credit cards went into default, and so the pay as you go cell phone number was never on any application and you personally never called the creditor or junk debt buyer or collection agency from your new cell phone, and you never gave them your new number.

Couldn't you just send them a letter which says that you never gave them any authorization or permission to call your cell phone, and that you demand they never call your cell phone number again?
Finally a collector admits it...

"The reality is that there are people who can't pay and the job of an agency in my opinion is to separate those who can and those who cant and to not waste resources and efforts on those who cant." -- Dr. Evil.

All this nonsense about aggressive judgment enforcement against someone with no assets is just that-- utter nonsense.

http://www.debtorboards.com/index.php?topic=13309.msg100303#msg100303

NotBonJovi

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Re: Spoofing caller id?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2012 12:18:33 AM »
Burden of proof regarding express consent is on them, not you.
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