Author Topic: Creditpulls  (Read 3255 times)

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Grey Fox

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Creditpulls
« on: March 03, 2006 07:26:38 AM »
Wow, I read the thread on Marvbear regarding the creditpulls database.  If anyone had bothered to do any research at all before opening their mouths, they would have seen that in this thread

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88009&hl=whogavemecredit&st=0

the creator of the whogavemecredit website posts to creditboards to announce "his" site that was put up.  He acknowledges taking Marvbear's information.  At first he claims to have had Marv's permission, yet later we read that our hero actually didn't get permission but was trying to play Marv.

Keep in mind that the first post in this thread was deleted by CB admin, but is visible later in the thread as part of a quote.

It took me 5 minutes to find this thead doing a search on creditboards.  Anyone here could have done the same before jumping all over MarvBear.  And, by the way, this thread was started March 2005.  First mention of creditpulls database was March 2004.  Again, a little research would have gone a long way.




direred

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006 09:01:01 AM »
Thanks.

I feel really bad about this personally, because if I'd been more on the ball about making a better front end for the creditpulls data, whogavemecredit wouldn't have been as necessary.

I like (and use) both sites, but the origin of whogavemecredit wasn't a happy event.

Flyingifr

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006 01:28:16 PM »
Wow, I read the thread on Marvbear regarding the creditpulls database.  If anyone had bothered to do any research at all before opening their mouths, they would have seen that in this thread

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88009&hl=whogavemecredit&st=0

the creator of the whogavemecredit website posts to creditboards to announce "his" site that was put up.  He acknowledges taking Marvbear's information.  At first he claims to have had Marv's permission, yet later we read that our hero actually didn't get permission but was trying to play Marv.

Keep in mind that the first post in this thread was deleted by CB admin, but is visible later in the thread as part of a quote.

It took me 5 minutes to find this thead doing a search on creditboards.  Anyone here could have done the same before jumping all over MarvBear.  And, by the way, this thread was started March 2005.  First mention of creditpulls database was March 2004.  Again, a little research would have gone a long way.

What happened to Marvbear was brought on solely by the acts of Marvbear. It had absolutely nothing to do with the truthfuilness or falsity of any of Marvbear's statements.

It is not the function of DB or any other board to sift out who did what and who gave permission to whom to post what where. If a poster of information feels aggrieved about the use of his/her knowledge, there is a calm and respectful way of saying it. Character assassination and (as they say in Mexico) "maledicciones" (meaning cuss words - in full of badly censored) are not the way to do it. Remember - we discuss the issue, not the person.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006 12:32:57 AM by Flyingifr »
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

Morality of Debt? No one ever went to the Nether Regions for not paying a debt.

Founder of the Credit Terrorist Training Camp (Debtorboards)

Pale Rider

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006 01:30:19 PM »
The link doesn't work, for me anyway.  Not everyone here goes to that board, or would even care what he was talking about.  And no one jumped all over him until he violated the TOS with extreme prejudice.  I copied the thread to a pdf file before any portion was deleted, so there is no question about that.  Some people don't want to get involved in those silly squabbles.  If he has a case, he can take it to court.  Otherwise empty threats to members here do just as much as an ITS to a CA that is not backed up with action.  A simple search at that site would also reveal that most, if not all of their recent accusations are common practice on that site.  So what are the TOS there, "do anything you want here at our board but don't dare go anywhere else and do something we don't like"?  That seems to be how the game is played, wether it is in writing or not.

I for one am glad that the owner here on this board has a policy, administers it fairly and equally, and doesn't want to play the childish games that a few have made standard practice.  We are adults here, lets act like it.  Joining a board just to play silly games and to start fights is way beyond childish.  There is a board full of collectors that embraces that idea, if anyone is interested in that.  Anyway, it really is time to get back to credit repair.  All of this silliness does no good for any consumer credit board. 

direred

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006 01:38:26 PM »
Honestly, I think that Marv handling the situation on this board in that particular manner reflects poorly on CB (where he's a mod), and Pale Rider's got some good points as well.

Speaking of which, it's time I got to sleep.

It appears that the original thread was taken down after Grey Fox posted the link.

quadchaser

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006 01:47:34 PM »
Thanks.

I feel really bad about this personally, because if I'd been more on the ball about making a better front end for the creditpulls data, whogavemecredit wouldn't have been as necessary.

I like (and use) both sites, but the origin of whogavemecredit wasn't a happy event.

My goodness.  Direred are you amember on creditboards too?  Are you a moderator or something there?

Grey Fox

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2006 02:43:03 PM »
I think Marv's tirade was brought on by the attitude of several of the moderators and admin here that basically said that this site does not care if if links to stolen, copyrighted information.  That reflects badly on this site

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You will have to prove to our satisfaction that there was blatant and unremitting plagiarism at any other website before we'd take down any link.  This would require eveidence that would be at a level that a Court would find that there was a violation of the law.  And, has done so.

I don't think you can.  Or, will even try.  We shall not be intimidated into giving into any demand, from anyone, which clearly is a result of a feud between competing websites!  If you don't like what whogavemecredit has done, take them to Court yourself and let the Judge decide.

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Marv, who posted the information first is a fight we will not get into here. The fact is, I was not aware of your site until just today. I knew of Psychdoc's group on Yahoo a couple of years ago. Both links are valuable and welcome.

If this website is going to allow and promote stolen material to be posted here without so much as investigating a claim of plagiarism then I think that's horribly irresponsible.  Any website worth its weight would want to weed out anything like this.  However, it's clear that debtorboards is not interested in that.

Direred herself even knew that the info was stolen.  She posted on it.

I'll make sure the creditboards link is fixed in the very near future.

I think that allowing such links as this to be promoted here creates bad blood between debtorboard and creditboards.  While I don't know exactly what Marv may have said, I can imagine I might not have said much different had by information been ripped off and another site posted the ripoff without so much as caring at all about my claims.


Vexatious Litigant

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2006 03:39:45 PM »
I think Marv's tirade was brought on by the attitude of several of the moderators and admin here that basically said that this site does not care if if links to stolen, copyrighted information.  That reflects badly on this site

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You will have to prove to our satisfaction that there was blatant and unremitting plagiarism at any other website before we'd take down any link.  This would require eveidence that would be at a level that a Court would find that there was a violation of the law.  And, has done so.

I don't think you can.  Or, will even try.  We shall not be intimidated into giving into any demand, from anyone, which clearly is a result of a feud between competing websites!  If you don't like what whogavemecredit has done, take them to Court yourself and let the Judge decide.
Okay here's the thing (Monk) Grey Fox...  Do you take the links down just because MarvBear says so?  I didn't even know there was an issue between the different creditpull groups until I read this thread today.  I'm a much more frequent poster on CB than flying is, so if I didn't know I certainly wouldn't except him to know.  From my reading of the threads, Marv's initial post (talking about lawsuits) could've been taken as sarcastic and trying to start a fight (not saying that he did that intentially, but it can easily be taken that way).

It's not really up to flying to arbitrate who stole who's idea and is in the wrong.  To the best of his knowledge (I'm guessing), both sites were legitimate in his mind, so he allowed links to both.  No conspiracy theory here.

If he really were worried or upset about some issue, I think there was a better way to go about it, namely just opening a discussion and explaining your side of the story instead of levelling accusations in a seperate thread that DB is enabling copyright infingment or something.  I like MarvBear and he does a superb job on CB with the automotive forums, but I wonder if being a mod at CB is influencing how he decided to act towards DB members.

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If this website is going to allow and promote stolen material to be posted here without so much as investigating a claim of plagiarism then I think that's horribly irresponsible.  Any website worth its weight would want to weed out anything like this.  However, it's clear that debtorboards is not interested in that.
It's not really his job to investigate a claim of internet plagiarism.  Unless MarvBear had clear and convincing proof that his site had been plagiarized, it would just be a he said, she said type thing.  Given the way that Marv presented himself initially here, I doubt flying would be investigating a claim anytime soon.

Imagine going to court and cussing the judge out right off the bat for not scheduling your trial right away and just issuing a judgment in your favor because the defendant is obviously wrong.  That wouldn't go over well I don't think.

Grey Fox

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2006 04:29:30 PM »
First, why does everything on this board have to be about going to court?  From my reading, I've gotten the idea that the pervasive line of thought here is "sue first, ask questions later", but that's twice now that the court example been used in relation to this issue.

My issue was not with "he said, she said".  My issue is that if I own or run a website, I want to make darn sure I'm careful what sites I'm linking too.  I would have a responsibility to my site members to link them to information that was not only true, but acquired legally.  It's the admin's responsibility to investigate this sort of thing.

Regardless, I've been talking to this nice moderator on creditboards.  Apparently, that link I had was "hidden" by their mods/admin at some point, so cottepin is trying to get it pinned back up for me so you can all see how this transpired.

Instead of washing your hands and looking the other way, the responsible thing for a site admin to do is check into these kind of things.  FlyingIRF's own TOS dictate that if you are going to quote information, it is OK, providing you link to the original post to give the OP and the site credit.  Does that not hold true for sites that you link to and help promote?  I don't even see any credit given to Marv's site on whogavemecredit dot com.  Holding your own TOS would dictate that you insist, at the very least, that credit be given.

Once that post on creditboards is up you will know who came first....believe me.


Edited to add:  Cotterpin told me that post should be there now, so the link should work.  Guess it had been taken down sometime in between me finding it and actually posting the link, but it's back.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006 06:02:16 PM by Grey Fox »

Vexatious Litigant

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2006 06:29:46 PM »
My issue was not with "he said, she said".  My issue is that if I own or run a website, I want to make darn sure I'm careful what sites I'm linking too.  I would have a responsibility to my site members to link them to information that was not only true, but acquired legally.  It's the admin's responsibility to investigate this sort of thing.
You can only go but so far.  Flying is running a website, not an FBI investigation.  All we have is MarvBear's side of the story and there are other things to do besides figuring out whether or not his creditpulls website was plagiarized.

That's not to say that flying couldn't have taken it down as a courtesy to MarvBear, but Marv did not present himself to these forums in a fashion that make one want to do something as a courtesy to him.  I think it was completely unprofessional how he came to these boards and started making accusations and assumptions.  The manner would have been better handled with a friendly PM to one of the mods.

It's almost as if MB was sent here to start a fight with us, so they can all talk about it back on CB and show how awful we are over here and don't respect them.

Grey Fox

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2006 07:10:09 PM »
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It's almost as if MB was sent here to start a fight with us, so they can all talk about it back on CB and show how awful we are over here and don't respect them.

I can tell you, having spoken to Marv, that he cam here on his own accord.

When a serious accusation comes forward like that, it's up to mods/admin to protect the sanctity of their site.  Imagine how you would feel if somebody ripped off all of your informatiton?  Imagine somebody ripped off IFR's methodology posts and put it on another credit site.  I imagine he might be kinda PO'd when he found it there, no?


imashopper

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2006 07:20:18 PM »
Wow hasnt this issue been going on between both yahoo groups for a long time
What is the drama about isnt it both to help out the consumer

Im kinda of confused I have seen this topic on a couple of boards ???

DefLepGirl

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2006 07:33:02 PM »
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First, why does everything on this board have to be about going to court?  From my reading, I've gotten the idea that the pervasive line of thought here is "sue first, ask questions later", but that's twice now that the court example been used in relation to this issue.

Why don't we ask the CA's and JDB's that violate the law..... IF they played by the rules this wouldn't even be a topic for discussion....  Why should we stop to ask "Why did you continue collection without Validating?",  "Why did you contact my parents home and discuss an alledged debt from them?" and the list goes on and on.... 

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My issue was not with "he said, she said".  My issue is that if I own or run a website, I want to make darn sure I'm careful what sites I'm linking too.  I would have a responsibility to my site members to link them to information that was not only true, but acquired legally.  It's the admin's responsibility to investigate this sort of thing.

I disagree, it is NOT (imho) the Administrator or Mod's job to *choose* a side in this matter.....   If *Marv* has an issue with what has transpired with the i information then he should legally take care of it....      It's SAD that this kind of stuff goes on.... I said this in another post but I'll say it again... We ALL found these boards for one reason....   This is NOT a *issing contest and these types of ego trips do NOTHING to inform the consumer.   

Who has the best site
Who has more members
BLAH BLAH BLAH...... WHO CARES.....      "Cliques" don't win wars, Unity and Information DO........   I'm quite sure the CA's  that *monitor* these boards are enjoying all of the dissention.

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Regardless, I've been talking to this nice moderator on creditboards.  Apparently, that link I had was "hidden" by their mods/admin at some point, so cottepin is trying to get it pinned back up for me so you can all see how this transpired.

See above Blah Blah Blah who cares....... "Cliques".... comment.....

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Instead of washing your hands and looking the other way, the responsible thing for a site admin to do is check into these kind of things.
FlyingIRF's own TOS dictate that if you are going to quote information, it is OK, providing you link to the original post to give the OP and the site credit.  Does that not hold true for sites that you link to and help promote?  I don't even see any credit given to Marv's site on whogavemecredit dot com.  Holding your own TOS would dictate that you insist, at the very least, that credit be given.
Once that post on creditboards is up you will know who came first....believe me.
Edited to add:  Cotterpin told me that post should be there now, so the link should work.  Guess it had been taken down sometime in between me finding it and actually posting the link, but it's back.

Grey.... Ask yourself this....   WHAT does all of this have to do with the problems we face from Collection Agencies and Junk Debt Buyers?   

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I love quoting Fleppie / Deflepgirl -  E. Normis  (Ok he actually didn't say it but actions speak louder than words..... or in this case words speak louder oooh whatever he loves it!-

Vexatious Litigant

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2006 07:33:33 PM »
Quote
It's almost as if MB was sent here to start a fight with us, so they can all talk about it back on CB and show how awful we are over here and don't respect them.

I can tell you, having spoken to Marv, that he cam here on his own accord.

When a serious accusation comes forward like that, it's up to mods/admin to protect the sanctity of their site.  Imagine how you would feel if somebody ripped off all of your informatiton?  Imagine somebody ripped off IFR's methodology posts and put it on another credit site.  I imagine he might be kinda PO'd when he found it there, no?


Imagine how you would feel if I came to your house cussing, calling you names and telling you to do something right now.

imashopper

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Re: Creditpulls
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2006 08:13:23 PM »
I have had help by marv before and this is totally not in is charectar. This must be much deeper. He comes off as sweet and helpful.