Author Topic: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?  (Read 3032 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

acsmith1972

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012 08:10:11 PM »
Really? That's just dumb. So really whoever designed the system designed with the best interests of the creditors and plaintiff's attorneys in mind.

Not the plaintiffs themselves.

And it really is incentive to learn the law and just sue yourself and cut the attorney out of it. They might be better at it, but they take forever and a huge cut.

And honestly they don't work for the money they bill. I had a payroll suit that was in court for 10 months. I got $9,000 and my attorney got $5,000 from his billable hours.

The last FDCPA suit I filed was over in a month and I got $1,000 and the attorney for that one billed $3,500. No way they worked as long as my other guy.

So either they bill at $1,000 an hour or they lie about their hours. Either way they wind up making way too much.

And I agree with the other guy that suggested if pro se means as your own lawyer we should be able to charge fees.

It was actually explained to me by the FDCPA attorney that for the $1,000 my creditor can call me all day, all night, every day till the case is settled.

And all my friends, my job, make threats, whatever they want and still only face $1,000. That's total How does the law protect me then?

If I turned around and did it to them I bet I'd get arrested for harassment.

E. Normis Debtor

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 2433
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2012 08:14:40 PM »
And I agree with the other guy that suggested if pro se means as your own lawyer we should be able to charge fees.
The United States Supreme Court disagrees with both of you.
I don't respond to PM's or emails for advice on specific circumstances.  My participation in this forum is general in nature, and not intended to create an attorney/client relationship.

CleaningUp

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 8586
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2012 09:25:10 PM »
We're back that the pro se litigant's Achillies heel with ACS and his commentary.

We are a nation of laws, justice has nothing to do with it.

ACS, you show an incredible lack of understandings of the fundamentals of our government and our courts.

Suggest that you not try to do this by yourself.  Your're likely to let your bruised ego sell you down the river.

And yes, a collector can call you an unlimited number of times for the $1,000.

Don't like it?  Contact your Senator or Congressman and see what they think of your concepts.


bmcinto01

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 618
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2012 10:58:44 PM »
My opinion on this issue is: DB is for protection of a debtors rights first and foremost. It isn't for a source of supplemental income. If you make a little cash, because the collector breaks a law then good for you. The reward for hard work and courage is well deserved.

Someone who is in this for the money only, needs to work for the other side. You just don't want to go down that miserable road.
Pro Se BK7 Discharged. MTC ARB 2-0. MSJ 1-1.

I am a debtor. Nothing I can do will ever change that. When confronted by a creditor in a court of law or Arbitration forum, I will exhaust all legal and contractual means to protect family and property. I will never act in bad faith or attempt fraud to escape an alleged debt. My defensive or offensive strategies will always be based on my intent and belief in doing what is right and fair.

BK7 Essay: http://www.debtorboards.com/index.php/topic,26562

acsmith1972

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012 04:54:35 PM »
The United States Supreme Court disagrees with both of you.

So? The United States Supreme Court up until the 60s said Blacks couldn't marry Whites. They still don't see women as equal to men, and don't consider water-boarding torture. Just because SCOTUS does or doesn't do something doesn't really mean much.

acsmith1972

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012 04:56:06 PM »
We're back that the pro se litigant's Achillies heel with ACS and his commentary.

We are a nation of laws, justice has nothing to do with it.

ACS, you show an incredible lack of understandings of the fundamentals of our government and our courts.

Suggest that you not try to do this by yourself.  Your're likely to let your bruised ego sell you down the river.

And yes, a collector can call you an unlimited number of times for the $1,000.

Don't like it?  Contact your Senator or Congressman and see what they think of your concepts.

I hope you never make a comment I don'[t like on these forums. If you do I'm going to call you out and imply you're stupid too. You really need to get a life.

acsmith1972

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012 04:59:20 PM »
My opinion on this issue is: DB is for protection of a debtors rights first and foremost. It isn't for a source of supplemental income. If you make a little cash, because the collector breaks a law then good for you. The reward for hard work and courage is well deserved.

Someone who is in this for the money only, needs to work for the other side. You just don't want to go down that miserable road.

The fact that you think a debtor should only be trying to make the calls stop is kind of sad. The people owed the debt can harass you day and night, ruin your credit, sue you, collect what they're owed PLUS whatever legal fees they want.

Your attorney who takes the case can charge whatever he wants in legal fees. To imply everyone else deserves to profit for violations of the law is just wrong.

If YOU personally don't like that I feel like I deserve to get as much money as they do I suggest you block me and ignore my threads instead of being rude.

E. Normis Debtor

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 2433
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012 05:07:21 PM »
Just because SCOTUS does or doesn't do something doesn't really mean much.
Only to the extent that their decisions are binding law in every court in the country.

So while you're free to argue in court that you are entitled to attorney fees, the judge you will be arguing it in front of can only rule as SCOTUS has said he/she may rule.  Which is no.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012 05:13:10 PM by E. Normis Debtor »
I don't respond to PM's or emails for advice on specific circumstances.  My participation in this forum is general in nature, and not intended to create an attorney/client relationship.

silverzgirl

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 3534
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012 05:11:32 PM »
Until there is established case law, it is what it is. SCOTUS has not revamped the FDCPA in decades and courts do not allow nonlawyers and pro se litigants to collect atty fees, and that is it until it changes. It may never do that.

As for court costs, you can collect those as well as other costs previously mentioned.

Atty fees are for the attorneys alone. I was one who was glad to have a lawyer do my heavy lifting; he worked on contingency and took 40 percent once all was said and done. Naturally it benefitted him to get me as much as possible.

You are making it about money, and the other side can smell that a mile away. Money takes a business decision and makes it personal and that is how many debtors are led straight to the kill. Hogs get fed, pigs get slaughtered.

It is not about money. It is about justice....sometimes, that means taking nothing but not having to pay anything either. One may be better off hiring a pro if they can't see past the dollar signs.
“Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.”  - Sun-Tzu

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I once thought I was a lawyer when I was litigating in a courtroom, but turns out I just had Patron induced bed spins and dreamed it all. Take my posts with a grain of salt...and a shot of Patron. But not so much you think you are a lawyer.

excelsior

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 718
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012 05:21:36 PM »
Costs are "Out of Pocket" costs like filing fees, service fees, etc..... not manufactured attorneys fees "paid" to a non-attorney.
Would costs include reimbursement for attending court hearings?  For example, would costs include lost wages at work because a pro se plaintiff had to take time off (earned leave) from work to represent himself/herself? 

CleaningUp

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 8586
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2012 05:29:28 PM »
Costs are out-of-pocket expenses.  Court fees, copying fees, deposition fees, etc...even parking fees to attend court could be included.

Lost wages would be considered damages.


E. Normis Debtor

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 2433
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2012 05:31:13 PM »
Until there is established case law, it is what it is.
There is established case law Kay v. Ehrler, 499  U.S. 432 (1991).

The court the Court ruled that the word "attorney" in the fee-shifting provision of the Civil Rights Attorney's Fees Awards Act, 42 U.S.C. s 1988, assumes an agency relationship, and therefore precludes recovery of attorney fees for work done by an attorney acting pro se.

Since Kay, other courts faced with the question of whether other federal statutes with anomalous fee shifting provisions, like the FDCPA, cite to the holding in Kay.

I think the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in deciding the same issue relative to other Federal statutes with fee shifting provisions stated it best:

 There is no limiting language in the Kay opinion to make us believe
that the Supreme Court intended its reasoning to apply only
to the specific statute before it.  Other fee-shifting statutes
also speak of "attorney's" fees.  The definitional implication
of an agency relationship in the EAJA provision is therefore
just as strong as in the Civil Rights Act.  Therefore, in
Burka, we had no difficulty in holding that the fee-shifting
provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C.
s 552(a)(4)(E) (1994), was governed by Kay and that a pro se
attorney-litigant pursuing a remedy under FOIA, like his
counterpart in a civil rights action, was not entitled to an
award of attorney fees.
I don't respond to PM's or emails for advice on specific circumstances.  My participation in this forum is general in nature, and not intended to create an attorney/client relationship.

silverzgirl

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 3534
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2012 05:32:52 PM »
Norm I should have clarified and said that until there is case law changing it.... :vbrofl: There already is case law saying pro se people cannot collect fees.
“Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.”  - Sun-Tzu

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I once thought I was a lawyer when I was litigating in a courtroom, but turns out I just had Patron induced bed spins and dreamed it all. Take my posts with a grain of salt...and a shot of Patron. But not so much you think you are a lawyer.

excelsior

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 718
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2012 05:43:54 PM »
Costs are out-of-pocket expenses.  Court fees, copying fees, deposition fees, etc...even parking fees to attend court could be included.

Lost wages would be considered damages.
Thank you. 

bmcinto01

  • Valued Member
  • Posts: 618
Re: Can I charge my own fees if I file pro se?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012 08:10:16 PM »
The fact that you think a debtor should only be trying to make the calls stop is kind of sad. The people owed the debt can harass you day and night, ruin your credit, sue you, collect what they're owed PLUS whatever legal fees they want.

Your attorney who takes the case can charge whatever he wants in legal fees. To imply everyone else deserves to profit for violations of the law is just wrong.

If YOU personally don't like that I feel like I deserve to get as much money as they do I suggest you block me and ignore my threads instead of being rude.

Sorry if this offends you. If you're offended this easily you wouldn't make a very good counsel for yourself. I don't agree with you. I know lawyers and collectors are crooks, but that doesn't mean debtors have to be too.
Pro Se BK7 Discharged. MTC ARB 2-0. MSJ 1-1.

I am a debtor. Nothing I can do will ever change that. When confronted by a creditor in a court of law or Arbitration forum, I will exhaust all legal and contractual means to protect family and property. I will never act in bad faith or attempt fraud to escape an alleged debt. My defensive or offensive strategies will always be based on my intent and belief in doing what is right and fair.

BK7 Essay: http://www.debtorboards.com/index.php/topic,26562

 

credit