Author Topic: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?  (Read 1340 times)

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debtfree2b

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Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« on: May 27, 2012 07:05:17 AM »
Hmmm.  A bit unsure what to make of this.

Sent N/C/ O a DV letter and request to identify their relationship to OC - AM/ X.

Few weeks later, I received a stack of supposed statements in the mail.  I responded with a letter stating that they failed to identify their relationship to OC, did not show a contract of any sorts and to also explain a letter accompanying the statements showing that "I" had requested the statements from OC who was now charging me for the statements (essentially looked like N/C/O had used my name to request docs from OC).

Today I get a letter stating.... "Thank you for your inquiry regarding the above referenced account. Please be advised that the above-referenced account is on hold pending closure in our office.

Federal and State law prohibit certain methods of debt collection and require that we treat you fairly. Please view our website at XXXX to review your rights under Federal and State law.

We appreciate the opportunity to respond to your inquiry.

sig.....

Not sure what to make of this. Any thoughts?

kevinmanheim

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2012 12:25:29 PM »
The CA is sending the account back to the OC, which is normal for this CA when challenged with a DV.

I would expect to be contacted by another CA.

chester474

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2012 01:49:21 PM »
You did a good job!

Debt collectors and even original creditors like to pick the "low-hanging fruit"  i. e. debtors who "play dead."

Fighting back can make debt collectors and even original creditors back off.

One has to fight back in the proper manner and you did the right thing.

When I receive a purported "verification" or "validation" I always demand more.

I have never been sent enough paperwork by an original creditor or debt collector that really evidences the debt.

If a new debt collector receives any debt of mine I assume have a case against the first debt collector and possibly against the original creditor for failing to inform the new collector that the debt is in dispute - a violation of a specific provision of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act of 1977 (FDCPA) - 1692e( 8 ).

A debt collector probably will not buy a debt if the debt collector knows the debt is "in dispute" and a request for a "verification" or "validation" means the debt is "in dispute."

Why else would the debtor go to the trouble of demandig a verification?

1692e of the FDCPA states: "...the following conduct is a violation of this section: ( 8 ) Communicating or threatening to communicate to any person credit information which is known or which should be known to be false, including the failure to communicate that a disputed debt is disputed."

Emphasis added.

I can find an attorney to take the case because the grant of attorney fees and costs to a debtor who prevails under the FDCPA is the attorney's incentive to accept the case without requiring money "up front."

I always hold out for the full $1,000 statutory damages because it was set in 1977 and has suffered from 35 years of inflation.

My attorney can't settle the case without my permission and I don't give it unless I get the full $1,000.

If the other side argues that if Congress had intended to adjust the $1,000 statutory damages limit I have my attorney argue back that Congress didn't say the Court couldn't take the effect of inflation into account!

debtfree2b

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2012 03:47:02 PM »
Thanks so much for the responses! I was thinking that is what they meant but didn't want to get too happy too fast!

If I have a bunch of phone violations for them should I wait a bit to file a claim against them? Or just go for it now?

arnanda

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2012 05:20:19 AM »
NCO put it on hold, and probably about to return it to AmEX.

On disputes, the CA will put their name and your name and account information so the OC can identify which account.

Look at the AmEx contract, some contracts state that you will have to pay for research (reprint of statements, etc) from the OC.  I don't believe it was NCO adding it on, it was AmEx, right?
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innocentme

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2012 04:54:59 PM »
Look at the AmEx contract, some contracts state that you will have to pay for research (reprint of statements, etc) from the OC.  I don't believe it was NCO adding it on, it was AmEx, right?

This made me think a bit.  Some of the VERY BAD DV letters ask for anything and everything from the CA/JDB.  This could be viewed as a research request.

I don't see how a basic good DV letter, I dispute, please validate, could have this issue, but the ones asking for every statement from $0 to charge off, could be viewed as a request for research.   
I am not an attorney.  I just love to know my rights, and to defend them at all costs.  Even if that means going on the offensive.  I'm always nice, until I'm not.

debtfree2b

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2012 06:06:55 PM »
I had received a phone call from CA/JDB? and stated that I had not received any sort of written communication from them and could they please send something in writing stating their concern and who they were.  I received a dunning letter shortly thereafter.

The initial letter I sent said

Quote
" I am writing in response to a phone call and follow up letter i received from you on XXXX, 2012.

Pursuant to my rights under federal debt collection laws, I am requesting that you provide validation of this debt.

Note that is not a refusal to pay, but a request that your offices provide me with evidence that I have a legal obligation to pay you and a complete account of the alleged amount due.

Please provide such verification by mail using the above address. During this time, please limit all such contact to mailed correspondence and not contact me by phone.

signed....."

The CA replied with a stack of statements and in with the documents was a letter from the OC addressed to "Dear Cardmember" that said,

Quote
"Enclosed are your statement copies that you have requested. If any months seem to be missing from your request, it is because our records indicated that there was no activity on your account during those months.

Your billing statements will indicate the amount your Account has been billed for this service. As a reminder you can print the last 6 months of your previous statements no charge through the Manage Your Account section at www.xxxxxxx.com. ......."

The bottom of the letter had a bar code and printed address area for ease in stuffing in an envelope to show through a window and it said

[bar code]
my name
N/C /0
PO Box....
City, State, zip


The OC letter made is sound like "I" requested statements where I asked CA/JDB to verify the debt and who they are.  I found this on the FTC site of staff opinions:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/krisor2.htm

Quote
2. A collector may not charge (the consumer) for copies of the documentation of the indebtedness mailed in response to the collector's obligations under Section 809(b). To do so could constitute an imposition of a fee or service charge in violation of Section 808(l) of the Act.(1) The cost of obtaining documentation referred to in your letter is more appropriately a cost of doing business by the collector in the same manner as is postage and telephone charges.

I did write a follow up letter wherein I stated I'd "received a package of documents but in reviewing them, did not see any type of agreements, copies of contracts and/or documentation stating that they had a legal right to discuss or collect on this alleged account or that validates the accuracy of your claimed alleged balance due".

I asked them to clarify their relationship to AM X, provide a copy of their contract/agreement with AM X, and asked for a copy of the letter sent to AM X "on behalf of  'myname' to obtain the documents sent to me..."

Clarified the all phone calls are inconvenient (didn't do that quite right the first time) and included an "if there is an underlying arb clause...".

[Note - am learning a lot about better and better DV letter requests :-) This was one of the first ones I'd ever written]


kevinmanheim

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2012 06:24:12 PM »
a letter from the OC addressed to "Dear Cardmember" that said,
The OC isn't subject to the FDCPA.

That's why the letter was from the OC, and not the CA.

The OC is charging you for the statements, not the CA.

debtfree2b

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2012 06:50:15 PM »
That's why the letter was from the OC, and not the CA.

The OC is charging you for the statements, not the CA.

My concern, by the tone of the letter from OC to "me", is that it seems to imply that "I" asked for copies of statements. If a CA wants to save money and not pay for possible charges to obtain copies of statements that according to the FTC's letter is a charge that they should incur as a routine cost of doing business and cannot pass on to the consumer, it would be a pretty sly technique to send a request in my name to OC using the CA address as a return address to get the copies as that would make a charge go to cardholder/me and technically could be seen as a "new" charge thus possibly affecting SOL as well.


CleaningUp

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2012 09:49:31 PM »
You are focusing on the wrong thing.

You DVed and they sent more than ample verification.

You should be concentrating on your next move to protect yourself.  Worrying about being charged for copies of your statement.  You can argue all that in court if and when it gets there.  Your goal is not to let it get there.


arnanda

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2012 02:30:40 AM »
My concern, by the tone of the letter from OC to "me", is that it seems to imply that "I" asked for copies of statements. If a CA wants to save money and not pay for possible charges to obtain copies of statements that according to the FTC's letter is a charge that they should incur as a routine cost of doing business and cannot pass on to the consumer, it would be a pretty sly technique to send a request in my name to OC using the CA address as a return address to get the copies as that would make a charge go to cardholder/me and technically could be seen as a "new" charge thus possibly affecting SOL as well.

Hi debtfree2be.  Let me address some of your concerns:

Thank you for answering my above questions.  You are right, the CA cannot charge you for doing research on your dispute.  That is why I asked who was it charging you for the statements.  You showed me where it said "dear card holder member..." so that is obviously AmEx charging you to do research.  Otherwise, let's say for argument that NCO were charging you, I'm sure they'd take on postage cost, etc, which wasn't done.  You asked for validation so that could be anything from the contract, all the statements on the account, etc.

Since the FDCPA requires the CA to receive the VOD then send it to you, that is why you see the: your name, CA's name and address.  The OC has to send it to them.  CA gives them the account information, with your name and their information. 

I highly recommend checking your agreement, for example I checked AmEx's charged member agreement for their Blue card and here is what it says about reprinting statements:

"Statement Copy $5 for each statement you request, except for the 3 most recent billing periods."

+1 to CleaningUp.
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debtfree2b

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2012 02:58:41 AM »
Appreciate all of the feedback.

What I was actually trying to understand to determine next steps was the letter I just received from NCO that stated:

Quote
"Thank you for your inquiry regarding the above referenced account. Please be advised that the above-referenced account is on hold pending closure in our office."

At this point I was assuming that this meant that they were closing their case but didn't want to jump the gun and assume incorrectly.  The copies of the statements is an interesting part of this. Obviously something is giving them reason to close their case. Whether that's that i'm not easy money or another issue, I guess we'll not know.

I'm still waiting for copies of CR to see if NCO actually is a CA or a JDB as they still have never clarified who they are and/or if they bought the account or not. At this point I'm strongly thinking they are a CA not a JDB but not 100% sure.

arnanda

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2012 05:56:31 AM »
You continued to dispute it after they sent you VOD, so you are right, they'd rather move on instead of investigating it further.

Since they actually got the VOD from AmEx, I'd think they're CA, not JDB.  AmEx rarely sales their accounts. 

AmEx will probably just send it to another CA if NCO closes it.
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JDBStick

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012 03:55:16 AM »
Can the OC claim the charge as activity requested by defendant, thus restarting the SOL?
I am not a lawyer, but I did once ask to see the briefs of a really attractive paralegal.

debtfree2b

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Re: Response to DV - "Account on hold pending closure"?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2012 04:09:01 AM »
To date, I have not received anything directly from AMX that would indicate a charge, just the odd letter in the stack of statements that was not sent directly to me but the CA. The account is closed and has been for some time.

Has anyone ever had an OC charge them to validate a debt?

I too am curious if such a charge, if valid, would restart SOL.

 

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