Author Topic: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt  (Read 2157 times)

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bmc100

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Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« on: July 03, 2011 12:43:56 AM »
I came across a paper written by a professor from Duke University Law school on assignment of credit card debt.  If you want to attack proper assignment in a credit card case, you need to attack assignment. Does anyone have any case law on assignment? Im in MI, so any MI case law?

kevinmanheim

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2011 12:59:41 AM »
CC securitization is something a Wall Street attorney would have trouble arguing in front of a federal court judge.

You arguing it in front of a state court judge is futile.

Quote
Judge: Is this your debt? Did you make these charges on this account?


Heck, most judges couldn't care if the plaintiff even owns the account. All they care about is that you are the guy who ran up the bill.

bmc100

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2011 01:14:48 AM »
each bank has underlying sale and service agreements...I have all of them for FIA Card Services. I scared an attorney representing FIA in a lawsuit...He asked if I had the paperwork showing my account number that the receivable was assigned...I told him I would subpoena it. For Equitable Assignment to be valid, there has to be a paper trail showing it...

It is not securitization to attack, that is the process if issuing the bonds, but rather attack the assignment based off of English Common Law of assignment and equitable lien...the reason why banks do not use Legal Assignment is due to the fact they would have to notify you and two if they file suit, the assignee would have to be named in the case.

They use Equitable assignment so they do not have to notify you or make you aware of what they are doing.

Admin0619

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011 01:29:56 AM »
each bank has underlying sale and service agreements...I have all of them for FIA Card Services. I scared an attorney representing FIA in a lawsuit...He asked if I had the paperwork showing my account number that the receivable was assigned...I told him I would subpoena it. For Equitable Assignment to be valid, there has to be a paper trail showing it...

It is not securitization to attack, that is the process if issuing the bonds, but rather attack the assignment based off of English Common Law of assignment and equitable lien...the reason why banks do not use Legal Assignment is due to the fact they would have to notify you and two if they file suit, the assignee would have to be named in the case.

They use Equitable assignment so they do not have to notify you or make you aware of what they are doing.

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CleaningUp

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011 01:39:13 AM »

I guess the law school professor has been reading Debtorboards.

As has been said in other threads, there is extensive ownership shuffle between the trusts and the OCs which will not be litigated on the basis of your defense of a delinquent credit card account.

The SEC, OCC, OTS, and FDIC have all been approving securitized credit card debt for decades; a little pro se litigant isn't going to have the capacity to attack the issue and get anything more than a frosty stare and a quick gavel from the court. As said, above, even high-powered securities lawyers on Wall Street wouldn't press this case, even if you were paying then $5,000 per hour.

Are you trying to join CrazyFriedChickenLady in the deep fat fryer?


kevinmanheim

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011 01:45:37 AM »
The success you had with FIA was likely due to the attorney looking at the case and deciding it wasn't worth their time to argue the matter.

The lesson being that, sometimes, the crazy-sounding person will be left alone by the attorney.

I know it's worked for me.

coltfan1972

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2011 03:58:11 AM »
One should never assume a position taken, a law interpreted, or a defense used was legally sound and accurate simply due to the fact the other side folded up shop.   

A lot of times it is simply a business decision for the creditor.   Somebody can be 100% wrong yet still cost the other side more money than it will be worth to fight.   

I know when I worked for an insurance company we used to settle claims or give in to a customer on a claim by writing it up as the action taken was the ultimate lowest cost for the company. 

I saw tons of claims being settled that if taken to trial the large majority of we would have won hands down.   The twelve people all claiming injury while alleging they were all in the car when rear ended immediately comes to mind.   

It was simply cheaper for me to cut everybody a $300.00 check, get a release and close the claim. 
Scroggin succeed in making this case an expensive nightmare for both CBOJ and its counsel.

Scroggin made a "mockery" out of CBOJ's deposition.

Scroggin made perverted "one-liners" during his deposition!!

Scroggin called CBOJ'S counsel "a little witch!!"

Scroggin has engaged in the exact type of behavior the FDCPA was designed to prevent.

Scroggin used the FDCPA as a "sword of intimidation!!"

Rebecca Worsham - Lead Counsel, Scroggin v. CBOJ, 3:12-cv-128 SWW, Eastern District of Arkansas.

bmc100

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2011 06:07:46 AM »
I had additional evidence supporting my defense as well. I was also using multiple other defenses. but used Equitable Assignment as another means to make their life miserable and require additional discovery..I was pressing to subpeona the people that signed the documents that I secured and subpeona the documents showing the account being sold.

It got the attorney to back down cause he knew he did not have a witness to authenticate the documents he was going to submit as evidence and I told him I was motioning to strike the docs as hearsay.


coltfan1972

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011 06:23:52 AM »
It got the attorney to back down cause he knew he did not have a witness to authenticate the documents he was going to submit as evidence and I told him I was motioning to strike the docs as hearsay.

Now your talking a legit defense that is a thorn in the side of a collection attorney.   The only thing I would do different is wait until trial to object as hearsay. 

No reason to tip your hand prior to the trial and give the other side the opportunity to secure that witness.   If they go for summary judgement then you might need to bust out the hearsay card a little earlier.   

Scroggin succeed in making this case an expensive nightmare for both CBOJ and its counsel.

Scroggin made a "mockery" out of CBOJ's deposition.

Scroggin made perverted "one-liners" during his deposition!!

Scroggin called CBOJ'S counsel "a little witch!!"

Scroggin has engaged in the exact type of behavior the FDCPA was designed to prevent.

Scroggin used the FDCPA as a "sword of intimidation!!"

Rebecca Worsham - Lead Counsel, Scroggin v. CBOJ, 3:12-cv-128 SWW, Eastern District of Arkansas.

kevinmanheim

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2011 12:45:17 PM »
No reason to tip your hand prior to the trial and give the other side the opportunity to secure that witness.   If they go for summary judgement then you might need to bust out the hearsay card a little earlier.
Then you risk encountering a judge who brushes evidence aside, looks directly at you and asks if you purchased goods or services with the card.

That's when you face the perjury or SJ decision.

bmc100

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2011 02:21:25 PM »
Luckily in the city I live in, I got to know the court clerk pretty well She would give me information and help me with rules of civil procedure. The judge has gotten to know my habits and as time went on, my written pleas have gotten better and better...The court clerk would tell me if I was using something that would not fly in court. Most of all the clerk was on my side always telling me good luck and go get em.

You also have to let the Plaintiff's attorney know that you will not back down and you will fight. The best thing that could happen is if during a hearing they hire a fill-in attorney and you can steamroll the rent-a-lawyer..cause they will not have the knowledge of the case at hand.

bad98roadster

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2011 02:30:19 PM »
Quote
Quote
from: coltfan1972 on Yesterday at 10:23:52 PM
No reason to tip your hand prior to the trial and give the other side the opportunity to secure that witness.   If they go for summary judgement then you might need to bust out the hearsay card a little earlier.

Then you risk encountering a judge who brushes evidence aside, looks directly at you and asks if you purchased goods or services with the card.

That's when you face the perjury or SJ decision.
I read a post where during trial, the defendant admitted the credit card and debt was theirs, and stated "I just don't owe it to this Plaintiff". That seemed risky also, but worked in that particular case.

coltfan1972

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Re: Equitable and Legal Assignment of credit card debt
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2011 03:37:44 PM »

I read a post where during trial, the defendant admitted the credit card and debt was theirs, and stated "I just don't owe it to this Plaintiff". That seemed risky also, but worked in that particular case.


That was me on both.  The hearsay objection I can somewhat see a little risk.  The one on standing I don't see any risk is that. 

Your admitting the debt and asking the other side to show they are the ones that should be paid.  It turns the table on your opponent because now they have to show the judge why they are not the ones trying to waste the courts time without the most basic of evidence, their right to even collect. 

I guess like any trial strategy one should of course weigh the risk vs reward.  I'm not tipping my hand and giving them time to make sure all there evidence is in admissible form and they have all their witnesses lined up.  In my opinion it is the right strategy for me. 

I've had a judge ask me when the last time I used a card was.  I simply stated, "your honor were talking about an alleged account from several years prior and a Plaintiff I've never heard of until I was sued.  I simply don't know due to the time frame of the allegations, the lack of prior knowledge of the Plaintiff, and the objections from the Plaintiff to my most simplest of requests during discovery. 

In addition, while not put into my quote about hearsay, I did state if facing a summary judgement you might need to play the hearsay card sooner.   The issue of standing makes all other arguments they might make moot. 

In my opinion you can turn the tables on the other side and take away the home court advantage if you show the court that you're coming to court prepared and the other side is coming with inadmissible evidence. 

Personally, I like to use the I'm just a lowly, non attorney pro se defendant with no formal legal training.  However, I know hearsay and lack of standing when I see it.  I don't think it's fair the other side is trying to get this past the court simply due to my non attorney status and perceived lack of knowledge of the rules of procedure. 

The fact opposing counsel choose to assume they would be able to get inadmissible evidence admitted simply due to the fact they were facing a non attorney pro se defendant is no reason for the court to relax the rules of civil procedure to accommodate the lack of preparation from opposing counsel.   
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011 04:09:52 PM by coltfan1972 »
Scroggin succeed in making this case an expensive nightmare for both CBOJ and its counsel.

Scroggin made a "mockery" out of CBOJ's deposition.

Scroggin made perverted "one-liners" during his deposition!!

Scroggin called CBOJ'S counsel "a little witch!!"

Scroggin has engaged in the exact type of behavior the FDCPA was designed to prevent.

Scroggin used the FDCPA as a "sword of intimidation!!"

Rebecca Worsham - Lead Counsel, Scroggin v. CBOJ, 3:12-cv-128 SWW, Eastern District of Arkansas.

 

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