Author Topic: Scaring Away Repossessors  (Read 13498 times)

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Flyingifr

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Scaring Away Repossessors
« on: October 15, 2005 12:37:50 AM »
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If you financed something    chances are that something is collateral for the loan. That means the lender has the right (subject to certain limitations) to repossess that article if you don't make the payments.

There are two types of repossessions: Self-help and Judicial. First    Self-Help:

Self-Help repossession is what everyone thinks of when they thing repossession - you wake up one morning and see oil stains in your driveway where you car was last night. You call the police and they refer you to the Finance Company. You call the Finance Company and they want from you    NOW    even more than you owe on the car because they have repossessed your car and have all sorts of expenses that you now have to pay to get the car back. If you don't pay in (usually) ten to thirty days    your car will be sold. You will be responsible for paying whatever you owe that the sale of the car doesn't cover.

In self-help repossession    the repossessor can only take that specific item that is collateral for that specific debt. Self-help repossession must be "peaceful" meaning there can be no objections by you. If you see it happening and go outside and start voicing your objections and try to obstruct the repossession (and hopefully call the police)    the repossession must stop. They will be back    though. In self-help repossession    the repossessor is not allowed to break any locks (like on garage doors or fence gates) but it is done more often than you can believe. The best way to stop an auto repossession is to have the car blocked in by other cars so the financed car cannot be taken.

In Judicial repossession    one of two things may be happening. Either the repossessor is trying to gain entry into your home to take one specific item that is financed by that debt OR a Judgement Creditor is trying to gain access to your home to take EVERYTHING. In either instance    the repossessor must have the police there and must have a Writ of Replevin signed by a Judge authorizing the entry. If this is the case    let it happen    because if you try to stop it you will be arrested.

I guess this is a good place and time to show our readers how to make the sheriff back away from taking your property. This does not apply to wages    real estate or bank accounts    just PERSONAL PROPERTY.

1. Recognize the economics of a repossession. It costs the creditor money to send someone to your home and take something away    transport it someplace where it can be kept safe    hire an auctioneer (all states require the property to be auctioned)    publicize the auction and actually sell the stuff. All these expenses have to be paid BEFORE the creditor gets dollar-one towards the debt. It is not unheard of for the movers (transport) to get $200    storage to be $5-$30 a day for a minimum of 30 days    the auctioneer to be $100 and the publicity to be $200. This all adds up to a MINIMUM of $650 and a maximum of $1400 in expenses. At storage yard auctions I have seen whole households' furniture go for $300. The moral of this story is simple - unless you have something of unusual value    the sheriff isn't taking anything. BUT    even if the Sheriff does show up    there are ways to stop him.
2. How to make a Sheriff decide not to repossess your stuff: Let's be honest about it - there is more myth in this area than fact. the collectors would have you believe they have the right to send the Sheriff to your home and the Sheriff will bust down the door and cart away everything you own    even taking the wallpaper off the wall and the canary out of its cage. Except in the most ridiculous of cases    nothing could be further from the truth. First of all    the Sheriff has a lot more important things to do than take your furniture. Second    the creditor will need a "writ of replevin" signed by a Judge    which is almost never granted except when a creditor wishes to repossess a specific item that the creditor has a specific security interest in (as opposed to the blanket "if this box is checked    we have a security interest in everything you own or ever will own). Third    the economics of a property repossession are such that the item would have to be of unusually high value to make the repossession worthwhile.

When a collector resorts to the "we're gonna take your furniture    the truck is on its way" routine    they are really getting very desperate.

3. KNOW YOUR STATE'S EXEMPTIONS (like in the bankruptcy Exemptions). Whatever is safe in a bankruptcy is safe from the Sheriff in almost all states.

4. NOTICE - FOLLOW THIS PART ONLY AFTER CONSULTING WITH AN ATTORNEY    as there is some disagreement about its legality in all states. If it's not safe    make it safe. Condition    especially cosmetic condition    is very important in valuation. The car can work like a charm. If it has a banged up body    it's worth a lot less than the average book value. So.... since there is no law against vandalizing your own property - feel free to cause some damage to your stuff that has some value. You will lose some value    but the Sheriff will lose interest in it. As I used to explain it when I was in credit counseling - "would you rather have a car in your driveway with two banged up doors    or the nicest car in the auction?" By banging the stuff up a little    you will bring its value down to the point where the economics I pointed out in the beginning take over. I even knew a person who went to a junk yard    bought an odometer off a junked car with the same model as his but with a LOT more miles    and he switched odometers. HE knew the actual mileage    the Sheriff didn't. The odometer showed over 200   000 miles and that the car was worthless. Is this illegal? I would say no more illegal than swapping a fender out with a fender from a junk yard.

Now.... some may argue that swapping odometers is illegal. It is NOT illegal as long as potential buyers are made aware that there is a “mileage discrepancy” between the odometer mileage and the REAL mileage on the car. TURNING BACK the odometer is illegal.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006 03:11:08 AM by flyingifr »
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

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Doctor Evil

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2006 12:51:22 PM »
I can see why AOC wouldn't host this post.  This is far and away the most ill conceived and worst advice I have ever seen on a message board.  To quote the good judge in the why you shouldn't proceed pro se, "we are all dumber for having read this and may God have mercy on your soul."

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If you financed something, chances are that something is collateral for the loan. That means the lender has the right (subject to certain limitations) to repossess that article if you don't make the payments.

OK so far I agree

There are two types of repossessions: Self-help and Judicial. First, Self-Help:

Self-Help repossession is what everyone thinks of when they thing repossession - you wake up one morning and see oil stains in your driveway where you car was last night. You call the police and they refer you to the Finance Company. You call the Finance Company and they want from you, NOW, even more than you owe on the car because they have repossessed your car and have all sorts of expenses that you now have to pay to get the car back. If you don't pay in (usually) ten to thirty days, your car will be sold. You will be responsible for paying whatever you owe that the sale of the car doesn't cover.

Yep

In self-help repossession, the repossessor can only take that specific item that is collateral for that specific debt. Self-help repossession must be "peaceful" meaning there can be no objections by you. If you see it happening and go outside and start voicing your objections and try to obstruct the repossession (and hopefully call the police), the repossession must stop. They will be back, though. In self-help repossession, the repossessor is not allowed to break any locks (like on garage doors or fence gates) but it is done more often than you can believe. The best way to stop an auto repossession is to have the car blocked in by other cars so the financed car cannot be taken.

A verbal objection is not sufficient to convert a repossession from peaceful to not peaceful

In Judicial repossession, one of two things may be happening. Either the repossessor is trying to gain entry into your home to take one specific item that is financed by that debt OR a Judgement Creditor is trying to gain access to your home to take EVERYTHING. In either instance, the repossessor must have the police there and must have a Writ of Replevin signed by a Judge authorizing the entry. If this is the case, let it happen, because if you try to stop it you will be arrested.

Yep

I guess this is a good place and time to show our readers how to make the sheriff back away from taking your property. This does not apply to wages, real estate or bank accounts, just PERSONAL PROPERTY.

1. Recognize the economics of a repossession. It costs the creditor money to send someone to your home and take something away, transport it someplace where it can be kept safe, hire an auctioneer (all states require the property to be auctioned), publicize the auction and actually sell the stuff. All these expenses have to be paid BEFORE the creditor gets dollar-one towards the debt. It is not unheard of for the movers (transport) to get $200, storage to be $5-$30 a day for a minimum of 30 days, the auctioneer to be $100 and the publicity to be $200. This all adds up to a MINIMUM of $650 and a maximum of $1400 in expenses. At storage yard auctions I have seen whole households' furniture go for $300. The moral of this story is simple - unless you have something of unusual value, the sheriff isn't taking anything. BUT, even if the Sheriff does show up, there are ways to stop him.

You in all fairness to your good readers, should discuss the legal theory of conversion and the exposure the debtor would have to a suit in that regard.  I've done it several times, and have won judgments several times

2. How to make a Sheriff decide not to repossess your stuff: Let's be honest about it - there is more myth in this area than fact. the collectors would have you believe they have the right to send the Sheriff to your home and the Sheriff will bust down the door and cart away everything you own, even taking the wallpaper off the wall and the canary out of its cage. Except in the most ridiculous of cases, nothing could be further from the truth. First of all, the Sheriff has a lot more important things to do than take your furniture. Second, the creditor will need a "writ of replevin" signed by a Judge, which is almost never granted except when a creditor wishes to repossess a specific item that the creditor has a specific security interest in (as opposed to the blanket "if this box is checked, we have a security interest in everything you own or ever will own). Third, the economics of a property repossession are such that the item would have to be of unusually high value to make the repossession worthwhile.

Maybe for large chain operations, my experience is that local businesses who do their own financing are happy to pull your dirty mattress out of your house, and dump it in their dumpster to prove a point.  

When a collector resorts to the "we're gonna take your furniture, the truck is on its way" routine, they are really getting very desperate.

Usually the OC will do  this before referring the balance out for collection.  Chances are you will be better off working with your creditor to repay the debt.  Often people in this situation, do not have access to credit but for a local creditor, and if it is an appliance store, and your refrigerator blows up, where are you going to get another one? 

3. KNOW YOUR STATE'S EXEMPTIONS (like in the bankruptcy Exemptions). Whatever is safe in a bankruptcy is safe from the Sheriff in almost all states.

Not if it is subject to a security interest.

4. NOTICE - FOLLOW THIS PART ONLY AFTER CONSULTING WITH AN ATTORNEY, as there is some disagreement about its legality in all states. If it's not safe, make it safe. Condition, especially cosmetic condition, is very important in valuation. The car can work like a charm. If it has a banged up body, it's worth a lot less than the average book value. So.... since there is no law against vandalizing your own property - feel free to cause some damage to your stuff that has some value. You will lose some value, but the Sheriff will lose interest in it. As I used to explain it when I was in credit counseling - "would you rather have a car in your driveway with two banged up doors, or the nicest car in the auction?" By banging the stuff up a little, you will bring its value down to the point where the economics I pointed out in the beginning take over. I even knew a person who went to a junk yard, bought an odometer off a junked car with the same model as his but with a LOT more miles, and he switched odometers. HE knew the actual mileage, the Sheriff didn't. The odometer showed over 200,000 miles and that the car was worthless. Is this illegal? I would say no more illegal than swapping a fender out with a fender from a junk yard.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read this.  First, its not your property until the security interest is extinguished.  Second, finance agreements pretty much without exception require you to take care of the property or keep it insured.  Swapping odometers is fraud, and can expose the debtor to civil and criminal liability.  Also, your auto insurance carrier usually asks how much you drive in a year in calculating your rates.  Do you really want to inflate that by swapping an odometer.

Now.... some may argue that swapping odometers is illegal. It is NOT illegal as long as potential buyers are made aware that there is a “mileage discrepancy” between the odometer mileage and the REAL mileage on the car. TURNING BACK the odometer is illegal.

Well how are you going to do that when the sheriff takes the car and its shipped off to auction.  Also, the sale price of the car after expenses is applied to the debt, so by decreasing the value of the car, you will have a higher deficiency balance.  But if you are dumb enough to do this, you deserve the consequences.


Rottweiler

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2006 12:05:00 AM »
While I will not presume to answer all your charges re:  this article on "Scaring Away Reposessors", doctor evil, I ask your indulgence here:

First of all, the condition that financed property is kept in is hardly a concern of a lender when outright purchase of an item is involved, rather than leasing it:  They just want your money.  Otherwise, there'd be a lot more "repos" just because the buyer is a "slob", and a lot of repo companies would be "on the hook" for damages sustained during the repossession process, too.

Your contention that most financing is done with local companies, other than auto sales or real estate,  who WILL grab any property financed with a security interest on it, just to make a point?  How quaint! Way outdated, even for expensive items.  Even smaller retailers these days either accept bank credit cards, or farm-out the financing to major companies; they just handle the up-front paperwork, and perhaps takes the payments as a "middleman" (seemingly rare these days).  It's the finance company/bank that takes the risk, not the retailer which is paid for the items up-front.  Would the "bank" want it anyway?  Naaaa...such entities do not want the stuff, even if it is salable, because the expenses behind a repo. and subsequent auction are far too high for what they will get for almost any item...and this often INCLUDES automobiles, if the book value is low!  In fact, it will, in nearly all cases, cost the finance company/bank more money than they will get to even attempt to do this.

As far as replacing an odometer is concerned?  Well,  mechanical parts do break down, and how would you prove that the original odometer was still functional if it is no longer around?  There is NO law that requires a repairer to turn in the allegedly "dead" one to anyone, or retain such, nor is it required that the new one be set to the milage figure of the old one.  Or, that such an item be brand-new when installed...it just needs to work.  Nor would you be likely to be able to prove when the odometer was replaced.  Nobody is required to keep detailed records of that, either.

If someone is really concerned about the effect a judgment will have on their assets and financial situation, they are hardly going to care about loss of resale value.  In addition, any savings in the insurance area due to the seeming high mileage of the vehicle in question would likely be most welcome.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2006 12:04:16 AM by Rottweiler »

Doctor Evil

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2006 01:36:24 PM »
While I will not presume to answer all your charges re:  this article on "Scaring Away Reposessors", doctor evil, I ask your indulgence here:

First of all, the condition that financed property is kept in is hardly a concern of a lender when outright purchase of an item is involved, rather than leasing it:  They just want your money.  Otherwise, there'd be a lot more "repos" just because the buyer is a "slob", and a lot of repo companies would be "on the hook" for damages sustained during the repossession process, too.

Whether its a concern is neither here nor there.  Chances are you agreed to it in the credit agreement.   I do however agree with your constitutional right to be a slob.

Your contention that most financing is done with local companies, other than auto sales or real estate,  who WILL grab any property financed with a security interest on it, just to make a point?  How quaint! Way outdated, even for expensive items.  Even smaller retailers these days either accept bank credit cards, or farm-out the financing to major companies; they just handle the up-front paperwork, and perhaps takes the payments as a "middleman" (seemingly rare these days).  It's the finance company/bank that takes the risk, not the retailer which is paid for the items up-front.  Would the "bank" want it anyway?  Naaaa...such entities do not want the stuff, even if it is salable, because the expenses behind a repo. and subsequent auction are far too high for what they will get for almost any item...and this often INCLUDES automobiles, if the book value is low!  In fact, it will, in nearly all cases, cost the finance company/bank more money than they will get to even attempt to do this.

Please point out to me where I said MOST financing is done by local companies.  I didn't, and in the interest of full disclosure, I was simply pointing out the obligations someone undertakes when signing a financing statement.  Whether the creditor wants it back has nothing to do with the exposure to a debtor on financed collateral.  If I cheat on my taxes, chances are I won't get caught, should I do it anyway?
 

As far as replacing an odometer is concerned?  Well,  mechanical parts do break down, and how would you prove that the original odometer was still functional if it is no longer around?  There is NO law that requires a repairer to turn in the allegedly "dead" one to anyone, or retain such, nor is it required that the new one be set to the milage figure of the old one.  Or, that such an item be brand-new when installed...it just needs to work.  Nor would you be likely to be able to prove when the odometer was replaced.  Nobody is required to keep detailed records of that, either.

I would re-read the first line of your signature Rotty.  Do a google search on odometer tampering/replacements and you will see what the obligations are and potential penalties civil and criminal for odometer fraud.  Anyone who resets/replaces an odometer has to disclose it, usually by a sticker on a vehicle


If someone is really concerned about the effect a judgment will have on their assets and financial situation, they are hardly going to care about loss of resale value.  In addition, any savings in the insurance area due to the seeming high mileage of the vehicle in question would likely be most welcome.

Loss of resale value will equate to a higher deficiency judgment against the debtor.  I don't see how that can be a positive effect on a debtor assets and financial situation.  Swapping an odometer and reporting higher mileage to your insurance company will also bring consequences that a debtor will not find attractive, notwithstanding the moral bankruptcy the debtor has entered into.

Fraud is fraud.  If you are willing to bear the consequences of that, then I say go ahead and do it, Rotty will defend you in your criminal proceeding.  There are legal ways to improve credit, this is not one of them and I suggest that the advice in the original post be ignored completely. 

If you do decide to go out and bang up your car and roll back the odometer, be sure you have your kids out there and explain to them what you are doing so that they will be able to follow in your example. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2006 01:44:44 PM by Doctor Evil, not a moderator »

Rottweiler

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2006 01:55:43 PM »
MY, my , are we cranky today... :D

I was commenting on the article...not my own situation.  I have never owned a car, and don't care to.  Neither do I deal with secured financing on major goods; I pay cash, buy secondhand (for cash),  or do without.  (Your comment on this point--that merchants will repossess anything just out of spite for simply  being "stiffed"-- DOES read as if you meant to say that most financing of major goods is with the local merchant, and handled in toto by them.  Not true anymore.)

So, if you think anyone here is trying to act in fraud of creditors at the criminal level, and you are seeking to expand your practice into those new horizons,  you need to think again.  In other words,  if you want to become the new Perry Mason, you will need to look elsewhere for clients.

Doctor Evil

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2006 02:23:05 PM »
MY, my , are we cranky today... :D

I was commenting on the article...not my own situation.  I have never owned a car, and don't care to.  Neither do I deal with secured financing on major goods; I pay cash, buy secondhand (for cash),  or do without.  (Your comment on this point--that merchants will repossess anything just out of spite for simply  being "stiffed"-- DOES read as if you meant to say that most financing of major goods is with the local merchant, and handled in toto by them.  Not true anymore.)

It doesn't say that, there are local creditors who do their own fiancing and they will go to extents the nationals wont.  That is all I am saying.  As for your own situation, you are free to rollback the odometer on your bicycle, scratch the reflectors and pull out the tassels on your handlebars. 

So, if you think anyone here is trying to act in fraud of creditors at the criminal level, and you are seeking to expand your practice into those new horizons,  you need to think again.  In other words,  if you want to become the new Perry Mason, you will need to look elsewhere for clients.

The advice given advocates defrauding credtors.  Its legally and morally wrong, and readers should consider that before acting on this advice.   I've filed conversion actions on behalf of creditors and won judgments--and not by default. 


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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006 05:59:11 AM »
So then, a replevin is almost never given to unsecured creditors, such as credit card companies?  And therefore, I don't need to worry about having Sheriff Joe knock down my front door and ransack my home looking for assets?

And unsecured creditors aren't really interested in any of my personal property because they would rather go after bank accounts and wages?

If so, I'm feeling better about all of this.  They are just trying to scare me into paying them, and there's not much they can really do to me.

The part about kicking dents into my car doors actually is interesting.  How does the sheriff decide whether or not to take your car?  How does he determine what your car is worth at the moment he comes out?  Or does he just take the car and then leave it up to someone else to decide whether it is exempt or not?

So, if the vehicle is parked behind someone else's car, they can't take it?  Can they legally move the other person's car to get at my car?

Finally a collector admits it...

"The reality is that there are people who can't pay and the job of an agency in my opinion is to separate those who can and those who cant and to not waste resources and efforts on those who cant." -- Dr. Evil.

All this nonsense about aggressive judgment enforcement against someone with no assets is just that-- utter nonsense.

http://www.debtorboards.com/index.php?topic=13309.msg100303#msg100303

Flyingifr

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2006 06:22:28 AM »
Actually, Doc - if you look at the original post you will see that I did not mention rolling BACK an odometer, but rather replacing the odometer with another one - one with a lot MORE miles on it.

Where is the fraud? If anything, the car's book value will take a hit because the odometer is showing MORTE miles than are actually there, which is not a crime in any state. Since when is replacing a part in a car a crime?\

And please note - I DO mention that there is question about the legality of this course of action - and advise the readers to consult an attotney before using it.

As Shakespeare would say... much ado about nothing.....
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

Morality of Debt? No one ever went to the Nether Regions for not paying a debt.

Founder of the Credit Terrorist Training Camp (Debtorboards)

Doctor Evil

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2006 01:17:20 PM »
Actually, Doc - if you look at the original post you will see that I did not mention rolling BACK an odometer, but rather replacing the odometer with another one - one with a lot MORE miles on it.

Where is the fraud? If anything, the car's book value will take a hit because the odometer is showing MORTE miles than are actually there, which is not a crime in any state. Since when is replacing a part in a car a crime?\

And please note - I DO mention that there is question about the legality of this course of action - and advise the readers to consult an attotney before using it.

As Shakespeare would say... much ado about nothing.....

I like how you ask "Where is the fraud" in one sentence, then your next sentence says there is a question about the legality. 

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2006 01:46:22 PM »
The legality question may be found in deliberately lowering the value of an asset by adding a used part,  which  in turn, implies that the asset is much more depreciated from apparent use than it actually is.  Not the mere fact that a mechanical part was replaced.

However, there is no law that requires that the replacment odometer be a new one, calibrated to to the nth degree to reflect the actual mileage shown on the old one.   If that figure would even be accurate on a presumably malfunctioning part anyway, or could be.  Neither can it be guaranteed that ther item was actually non-functional (or malfunctioning at all) when it was replaced.  (The original part is not retained with the vehicle, nor would it be required to be under law.)  What needs to be attested to is that the odometer is a replacement, and the mileage shown may or may not correspond to the actual mileage that the car has racked up.  And, that the odometer itself was not tampered with in any way.

If the judgment creditor suspected that the car has a higher book value--and less mileage than the odometer says it does, then they could simply replevin  it anyway.  And, get the judgment debtor for the attempted fraud in criminal court, as well as subject even more of the debtor's property to levy to make up the difference.

The fact is:  Unless the car were a  high-status, high-value, late model one, in reasonably good shape, the economics of the situation would indicate thast they would not even bother, so that the odometer question would not come into play.  Grabbing the bank accounts, garnishing wages...and getting those, eh, "annuities" on real estate (the property lien)...are all much more efficient at getting the money, and will pay off a lot sooner for a lot less expense.
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Flyingifr

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2006 02:09:02 PM »
The legality question may be found in deliberately lowering the value of an asset by adding a used part,  which  in turn, implies that the asset is much more depreciated from apparent use than it actually is.  Not the mere fact that a mechanical part was replaced. Preposterous position for a party to take in Court. "Your Honor, the defendant committed fruad by placing a used part in the car...." If that were the case then every junkyard in the country that sells used parts would be ipso facto guiulty of aiding and abetting fraud.

However, there is no law that requires that the replacment odometer be a new one, calibrated to to the nth degree to reflect the actual mileage shown on the old one.   If that figure would even be accurate on a presumably malfunctioning part anyway, or could be.  Neither can it be guaranteed that ther item was actually non-functional (or malfunctioning at all) when it was replaced.  (The original part is not retained with the vehicle, nor would it be required to be under law.)  What needs to be attested to is that the odometer is a replacement, and the mileage shown may or may not correspond to the actual mileage that the car has racked up.  And, that the odometer itself was not tampered with in any way.

If the judgment creditor suspected that the car has a higher book value--and less mileage than the odometer says it does, then they could simply replevin  it anyway.  And, get the judgment debtor for the attempted fraud in criminal court, as well as subject even more of the debtor's property to levy to make up the difference.

The fact is:  Unless the car were a  high-status, high-value, late model one, in reasonably good shape, the economics of the situation would indicate thast they would not even bother, so that the odometer question would not come into play.  Grabbing the bank accounts, garnishing wages...and getting those, eh, "annuities" on real estate (the property lien)...are all much more efficient at getting the money, and will pay off a lot sooner for a lot less expense.

My point in the original thread exactly.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006 05:03:45 PM by Rottweiler »
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

Morality of Debt? No one ever went to the Nether Regions for not paying a debt.

Founder of the Credit Terrorist Training Camp (Debtorboards)

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2006 05:11:49 PM »
Flying:  I  corrected the BB Code so people can see your comment. 

Why people worry so much about their cars being taken to satisfy the average judgment on credit card debts--which are small potatoes for the most part--I have no idea.  I am sure the judgment creditors take into account the economics of the situation:  Most people's cars are either not worth much, or they are "upside down" by a lot on the car loan!  The judgment creditor would likely have to pay off that lien to get the title so they can sell the thing.  Cars usually don't fetch much at auction, so it's likely the judgment creditor would even lose money just trying that.

Garnishments work better and cost a lot less, never mind being a lot less hassle.

Now, if it's the lender who holds the note--and the security interest--on the car, that's a different story.  They would not care about the asset value, they just want the collateral.  And will go after any deficiency later.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006 05:13:24 PM by Rottweiler »
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HeadsUp

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2006 09:14:35 PM »
The legality question may be found in deliberately lowering the value of an asset by adding a used part,  which  in turn, implies that the asset is much more depreciated from apparent use than it actually is.  Not the mere fact that a mechanical part was replaced.

However, there is no law that requires that the replacment odometer be a new one, calibrated to to the nth degree to reflect the actual mileage shown on the old one.   If that figure would even be accurate on a presumably malfunctioning part anyway, or could be.  Neither can it be guaranteed that ther item was actually non-functional (or malfunctioning at all) when it was replaced.  (The original part is not retained with the vehicle, nor would it be required to be under law.)  What needs to be attested to is that the odometer is a replacement, and the mileage shown may or may not correspond to the actual mileage that the car has racked up.  And, that the odometer itself was not tampered with in any way.

If the judgment creditor suspected that the car has a higher book value--and less mileage than the odometer says it does, then they could simply replevin  it anyway.  And, get the judgment debtor for the attempted fraud in criminal court, as well as subject even more of the debtor's property to levy to make up the difference.

The fact is:  Unless the car were a  high-status, high-value, late model one, in reasonably good shape, the economics of the situation would indicate thast they would not even bother, so that the odometer question would not come into play.  Grabbing the bank accounts, garnishing wages...and getting those, eh, "annuities" on real estate (the property lien)...are all much more efficient at getting the money, and will pay off a lot sooner for a lot less expense.

Explain the process of how the judgment creditor would replevin the debtor's car to me.  What are the steps involved?  How do they do it?  I've heard about this as a possibility, but I've never met anyone who had it actually happen to them, and so I was wondering what exactly happens.
Finally a collector admits it...

"The reality is that there are people who can't pay and the job of an agency in my opinion is to separate those who can and those who cant and to not waste resources and efforts on those who cant." -- Dr. Evil.

All this nonsense about aggressive judgment enforcement against someone with no assets is just that-- utter nonsense.

http://www.debtorboards.com/index.php?topic=13309.msg100303#msg100303

Flyingifr

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2006 10:15:43 PM »
The legality question may be found in deliberately lowering the value of an asset by adding a used part,  which  in turn, implies that the asset is much more depreciated from apparent use than it actually is.  Not the mere fact that a mechanical part was replaced.

However, there is no law that requires that the replacment odometer be a new one, calibrated to to the nth degree to reflect the actual mileage shown on the old one.   If that figure would even be accurate on a presumably malfunctioning part anyway, or could be.  Neither can it be guaranteed that ther item was actually non-functional (or malfunctioning at all) when it was replaced.  (The original part is not retained with the vehicle, nor would it be required to be under law.)  What needs to be attested to is that the odometer is a replacement, and the mileage shown may or may not correspond to the actual mileage that the car has racked up.  And, that the odometer itself was not tampered with in any way.

If the judgment creditor suspected that the car has a higher book value--and less mileage than the odometer says it does, then they could simply replevin  it anyway.  And, get the judgment debtor for the attempted fraud in criminal court, as well as subject even more of the debtor's property to levy to make up the difference.

The fact is:  Unless the car were a  high-status, high-value, late model one, in reasonably good shape, the economics of the situation would indicate thast they would not even bother, so that the odometer question would not come into play.  Grabbing the bank accounts, garnishing wages...and getting those, eh, "annuities" on real estate (the property lien)...are all much more efficient at getting the money, and will pay off a lot sooner for a lot less expense.

Explain the process of how the judgment creditor would replevin the debtor's car to me.  What are the steps involved?  How do they do it?  I've heard about this as a possibility, but I've never met anyone who had it actually happen to them, and so I was wondering what exactly happens.

Ina  Replevin action, the Judgment Creditor would have to serve you with replevin papers and have a Court hearing. The Jusge woiuld only issue anm Order of Replevin if there was considerable equity in the vehicle. That is why it is almost never done.
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

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Re: Scaring Away Repossessors
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2006 06:39:49 PM »
post split to "Avoiding repossssion" to foster responses