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The Players => Collectors and Agencies => Topic started by: BubbaGump on November 16, 2007 09:20:00 PM

Title: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: BubbaGump on November 16, 2007 09:20:00 PM
Not sure if I would be better off posting a separate thread about this, but here goes. Please let me know if I need to create a separate thread, please.

I have more than a few outstanding debts I cannot afford to pay. Most have been written off by the OC's, but not purchased by CA's yet. I am considering a BK, but have not yet met with an advisor, nor an attorney. I am moving to another state for other reasons, but I will likely be forced to get a driver's license in the new state.

The question: Does the skip tracer have the ability to search each state's driver's license database or the national registry, to find my new driver's license, and therefore find me from the state DL agency? The national registry appears to be based on SSN's, at least as the primary method of referencing and indexing a state driver's license.

Let us assume I am not going to give my new license number to anyone likely to place it on any of my credit reports, so the skip tracer will not get it from the reports.
Title: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Rottweiler on November 16, 2007 10:45:35 PM
Depends on how much time and money the CA wants to spend to find you. 

Most CA's do the "quick and dirty"--such as pull credit reports--because "time is money" AND the databases which might get the information are expensive to use.  As to whether they could simply call Motor Vehicles and get the information?  They might not succeed here due to privacy laws, but it's a possibility; check the law for the state you are moving to.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: BubbaGump on November 17, 2007 12:32:06 PM
Thanks, Rottweiler. I am simply not sure how to check the statutes here. It is rather difficult to find the information with the driver's license agency, so I do not know the exact sections of the new state's laws to check online. Part of the difficulty is asking the question within the new state: by asking this question, the " wrong " red flags would go up with the person I am asking.

Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: CreditFighter on November 17, 2007 12:45:16 PM
I can search SOME state's DL databases...
If you really don't want to be found, don't apply for anything, don't update your new address with your current creditors, and live in a cave (even apartments pull your credit sometimes).
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: BubbaGump on November 19, 2007 02:10:53 PM
I am not applying for new credit at the new address, I have kept my old driver's license until I know it is " safe " to get a new one. I believe I understand the range of ways a CRA gets my contact information except:

I do not know if a state's DL registry, or the national registry (based on SSN, I think) is searchable online. Anyone?
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: CreditFighter on November 19, 2007 02:50:46 PM
It depends on the state...  I have access to some of them, some I do not.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Kitten on November 19, 2007 03:16:29 PM
You will find it difficult to impossible to get a new DL without surrendering the old one.
I do not know if it will end up in state1's database as 'transfered to state2 DL#xxx', but if it does, a records search in your original state will lead them straight to you.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: BubbaGump on November 19, 2007 03:39:14 PM
Quote
You will find it difficult to impossible to get a new DL without surrendering the old one.
I do not know if it will end up in state1's database as 'transfered to state2 DL#xxx', but if it does, a records search in your original state will lead them straight to you.

I do not expect to keep the old DL AND get a new one. The very reason I am asking this question is because I will give up the old license with the old state information, which might cause a red flag if an OC or CA has ready access to the national registry, or has a form of electronic alert. So yes, I understand I no longer will have physical possession of the old DL if I get a new DL in state 2.

Yes, I understand that IF the national registry or state 1's database says " transferred to state 2 ", that would indicate a transfer. What I don't know is whether this would be indicated in any national online registry.

Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: maylaur on February 22, 2008 01:11:36 AM
Would it be out of the question to call the local licensing place and ask what gets posted on the online registry?
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Pablo on July 17, 2008 05:03:31 AM
Yes, you are right they will find you especially if you have debts to pay.  They can get access to numbers of your relatives/friends so they could possibly tell your number/address.  The only way I would imagine of getting out of it would be to pay or file bankruptcy.  Yes you should try to pay your debts back little by little, how about borrowing the money or making some small payments?  It just doesn't go away or perhaps you could file bankruptcy so they go away as well.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: wesaidso on July 17, 2008 06:15:38 AM
Say roxcyn are  you related to Christopher Hansworth ?
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Pablo on July 17, 2008 06:34:46 AM
Say roxcyn are  you related to Christopher Hansworth ?

Who is that?  Let me search for his name because I'm not familiar with that name.....
It looks like that person is associate with a debt collector, is that correct? 

Actually I must say that I'm not a collector and I'm not affiliated with Christopher Hansworth (first time I am hearing his name).  I was just trying to reply honestly, and that is that the only way to make the bill "go away" is paying it off (payment arrangement, settlement, etc) or to include it in bankruptcy....I came here because I have an interest in learning more about debt collections & fraudulent issues about accounts.  So you could say I'm a concerned citizen, and what brings you on to these boards wesaidso?  :D
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: wesaidso on July 17, 2008 08:01:40 AM
Who is that?  Let me search for his name because I'm not familiar with that name.....
It looks like that person is associate with a debt collector, is that correct? 

Actually I must say that I'm not a collector and I'm not affiliated with Christopher Hansworth (first time I am hearing his name).  I was just trying to reply honestly, and that is that the only way to make the bill "go away" is paying it off (payment arrangement, settlement, etc) or to include it in bankruptcy....I came here because I have an interest in learning more about debt collections & fraudulent issues about accounts.  So you could say I'm a concerned citizen, and what brings you on to these boards wesaidso?  :D

Sorry thought you might be related to Christopher.
I  to come  here to LEARN this is why i don't make many comments unless its a problem
that i have had or i am well versed with the subject matter.
Sad to say most of it is all new to  me..... ::)
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: DefLepGirl on July 17, 2008 03:28:01 PM
Quote
Yes, you are right they will find you especially if you have debts to pay.  They can get access to numbers of your relatives/friends so they could possibly tell your number/address.  The only way I would imagine of getting out of it would be to pay or file bankruptcy.  Yes you should try to pay your debts back little by little, how about borrowing the money or making some small payments?  It just doesn't go away or perhaps you could file bankruptcy so they go away as well.

So they get your address? 

Roxcyn.......

If folks were to follow your logic on this one (IE) pay "your" debts back little by little, borrowing the money, or filing BK they could easily be screwing themselves.

As with anything there is a process........ The same goes with Debt Collection.......

Is this "debt" past SOL   (if) so by making a payment on it you could renew the SOL 

Is this "debt" valid?   Can the collection agency / jdb provide you with documents that actually prove that you owe this debt and they have the right to collect it.....

Has the collection agency muddied up your CR's with FCRA violations

Has the collection agency followed the FDCPA and all State consumer protection laws while attempting to collect?

And the list goes on and on........

If you enjoy kool-aid and blindly following "instructions" without reason or proof then by all means do as you said......

However if a consumer is interested in fighting for their rights then there are steps they can take .........
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: TeeVeeDude on July 17, 2008 03:29:57 PM
I  to come  here to LEARN this is why i don't make many comments unless its a problem
that i have had or i am well versed with the subject matter.

That's wise of you. Too bad some people feel the need to comment on every thread the first day they show up. (Not that I want to mention any names here (cough)<name redacted as a TOS violation>(cough))
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Rottweiler on July 17, 2008 04:15:01 PM
Yes, you are right they will find you especially if you have debts to pay.  They can get access to numbers of your relatives/friends so they could possibly tell your number/address.  The only way I would imagine of getting out of it would be to pay or file bankruptcy.  Yes you should try to pay your debts back little by little, how about borrowing the money or making some small payments?  It just doesn't go away or perhaps you could file bankruptcy so they go away as well.

Well, we have a problem here.

Not with the fact that most CSRs at a CA know how to do a Google and reverse directory search...and can be stubborn <rear ends of horses> when a commission is at stake.  You hint at having other sources...but those are usually either more expensive than the bosses are willing to pay for for 'routine' collections and/or are not available to you.

What you have is...what the rest of us consumers do. 

However, your understanding of BK law is rather weak, as is your understanding of the realities of debt service:  Most creditors DON'T go for the "little by little" payments since their own "books"--and shareholders if they are a publically-traded company--simply don't want to wait for the money.  (We are not dealing with Joe's Garage and Rotten Veggie Food Shoppe very often anymore, the type of small businesses who might go for those payment arrangements to get the money small businesses must collect to survive.)

The suggestion to borrow money and then discharge that debt in the BK?  The timing you hint at would likely work against both the debtor and the creditor client and the CA.  It's a little detail called "preferential payment" in which payments received before so many days/months are up prior to filing have to be paid back to the BK Estate to be distributed to everyone, not just you or your client. 

I am sure you would LOVE paying back those commissions to the BK Estate and get potentially nothing in return (if it turns out that the case is a 'no-asset' Chapter 7). 
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Pablo on July 18, 2008 02:50:11 AM
So they get your address? 

Roxcyn.......

If folks were to follow your logic on this one (IE) pay "your" debts back little by little, borrowing the money, or filing BK they could easily be screwing themselves.

As with anything there is a process........ The same goes with Debt Collection.......

Is this "debt" past SOL   (if) so by making a payment on it you could renew the SOL 

Is this "debt" valid?   Can the collection agency / jdb provide you with documents that actually prove that you owe this debt and they have the right to collect it.....

Has the collection agency muddied up your CR's with FCRA violations

Has the collection agency followed the FDCPA and all State consumer protection laws while attempting to collect?

And the list goes on and on........

If you enjoy kool-aid and blindly following "instructions" without reason or proof then by all means do as you said......

However if a consumer is interested in fighting for their rights then there are steps they can take .........

DefLepGirl, let's stay at the issue at hand.  Please read the original poster-he says he has too many debts that he cannot afford to pay.  He didn't say anything about them not being valid so he must know (acknowledge) that these are valid debts.  The SOL only applies to credit report it doesn't apply to debt collection with the exception of a few states.  Doesn't the CA send VOD anyway?  That is what is required by FDCPA anyway so I would imagine the letter they are sending is a VOD.  So, it's one thing to not owe the money, it's a totally different thing to skip town without paying the bill which I assume you are suggestion, DefLepGirl. 

However the original poster wasn't talking about that..he was talking about skiptracing and of course if he applies for new DV at BMV I assume someone can get his new address......so if bankruptcy isn't an option or borrowing isn't an option how about paying 5 dollars a week?  And paying back on delinquencies isn't screwing yourself it's outstanding & in collections and since the original person stated he owed these balances (& didn't state anything about fraudulent issue, etc) then they need to be paid back.  However I'll end my discussion here because he was specifically asking about skip tracing.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Pablo on July 18, 2008 02:54:44 AM
Well, Rottweiler, if bankruptcy and small payments aren't an option what do you suggest to do when people make bills that they don't pay?  You know when people refuse to pay it is passed on to the consumer that that means the people that don't pay are making the companies raise their prices.  However I'm ending the discussion in regards to payment because the original poster was only focusing on skip tracing.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: DefLepGirl on July 18, 2008 03:33:05 AM
Quote
DefLepGirl, let's stay at the issue at hand.  Please read the original poster-he says he has too many debts that he cannot afford to pay.  He didn't say anything about them not being valid so he must know (acknowledge) that these are valid debts.
 

Even if he does acknowledge them, there are things that come into play....

1.  Does the CA that is currently trying to collect have the right to do so...
2.  Are there any lic./ bonding requirements within the OP's state (if so is the CA in compliance with them)
3.  Is the amount they are trying to collect correct?
4.  Is the CA reporting to the CRA  (if so) are they reporting accurately.....
5.  Have they followed the FDCPA and any State Consumer laws that may apply.....

Quote
The SOL only applies to credit report it doesn't apply to debt collection with the exception of a few states


Ummmm  ::)  each state has a SOL which applies to different circumstances (IE) Open, Written, Etc. etc.    If a "Debt" has "legally" expired it doesn't mean they can't "try" to collect but it does mean that if they sue you...........you can bring up time barred as a defense..... (IE) expired SOL

Quote
Doesn't the CA send VOD anyway?
    If a "debt" is newer (freshly charged off) it's highly possible that they will provide you with VOD.... If it's older and been passed around it's doubtful...... (In my opinion and experience)

Quote
That is what is required by FDCPA anyway so I would imagine the letter they are sending is a VOD.
 

Allison B. Moon, Chaudry (etc. etc.)   

Quote
So, it's one thing to not owe the money, it's a totally different thing to skip town without paying the bill which I assume you are suggestion, DefLepGirl. 


Not at all what I am suggesting..... (see above 1-5)

Quote
However the original poster wasn't talking about that..he was talking about skiptracing and of course if he applies for new DV at BMV I assume someone can get his new address......

I wasn't replying to the OP..... I was replying to you :)

Quote
so if bankruptcy isn't an option or borrowing isn't an option how about paying 5 dollars a week?
 

Again, see 1-5 above........

Quote
And paying back on delinquencies isn't screwing yourself it's outstanding & in collections and since the original person stated he owed these balances (& didn't state anything about fraudulent issue, etc) then they need to be paid back. 


:::::Pointing up  see 1-5::::::::::

However I'll end my discussion here because he was specifically asking about skip tracing.

 :drinking:
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: pinklady1275 on November 01, 2010 11:00:49 AM
You don't necessarily have to give up your drivers licence.  Considering you are going to a different State, most States will have you test on the new State driving laws to make sure that you are complying with their laws and you are driving safely on their roads before giving you a new license. Some States will allow you to trade in your old drivers license for the new one. Why not keep the old drivers license and test for a new one with a new test. This way you can protect your privacy and your new address.  Just a thought...  :woohoo:
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Flyingifr on November 03, 2010 04:22:43 AM
You don't necessarily have to give up your drivers licence.  Considering you are going to a different State, most States will have you test on the new State driving laws to make sure that you are complying with their laws and you are driving safely on their roads before giving you a new license. Some States will allow you to trade in your old drivers license for the new one. Why not keep the old drivers license and test for a new one with a new test. This way you can protect your privacy and your new address.  Just a thought...  :woohoo:

That's not what happened when I moved from NY to AZ. They just took my NY license and gave me an AZ license. The only test I took was to see if I could count to $4.00 - has something to do with the Full Faith and Credit clause of the 9th Amendment....
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: mysticspirit25 on November 03, 2010 01:40:40 PM
You can keep your old state license, although it may be illegal in some states.  Just go to your current states DMV/MVA whatever it's called and get a duplicate, tell them you lost it.  Your duplicate should have a newer 5 year exp date on it, turn in your "lost" license to the new state and keep both.  I have a NM, NC, and MD license, and have used all 3 many times when getting speeding tickets, etc, with no problems.  The DMV databases are connected only to make sure you are not revoked or suspended in another state, that's it.  , if you go t Tennessee, you can get an ID or DL if you have a pulse, they don't check legitimacy of docs and just give one to people who can give them $12 dollars.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: CleaningUp on November 03, 2010 01:59:16 PM
In most states, MS25, what you have done is a violation of the law, providing false information to the police.

Yea. you may have had the other states' DLs, but since you no longer live at the address listed on the old DL, providing it in a legal matter would be knowingly offering false information. That's a crime.

Most likely you won't get either caught or hit too hard, but it is a CRIME nonetheless.

Do you always recommend criminal activities?



Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Admin6572 on November 03, 2010 04:11:11 PM
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Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: mysticspirit25 on November 03, 2010 05:36:41 PM
CU, I wasn't advocating anybody to commit a crime, and I apologize to everybody if it seemed as I were.  Sure, I may "live on the edge", but I know the boundaries.  I didn't think providing a valid ID card to the police when pulled over was giving them false information, it would be a crime if they asked "do you have any other driver licenses" and you told them no and had one, but when I got duplicates and kept my old ID's for various reasons, the new state never asked if I had more than one.  I just turned in my old one and got a new one.  If asked when I got my ticket, I just told the truth about my current address, no lie to the police.

Now, if this federal driver database ever goes into effect, then it's a dead deal. 
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: silverzgirl on November 03, 2010 06:44:02 PM
This may have changed, but a long time ago in Washington, they gave you your old license back. They punched holes in it so you can't use it again, kind of like they do with old passports. Florida and Texas both kept the old licenses once you got your new one.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: mysticspirit25 on November 03, 2010 08:52:20 PM
When I got my NC license, I took the test (yeah they make you take a written test even if you've been driving for 20 years), and gave them my MD license, and they gave it back to me, because I was a new resident to NC, they mailed my NC license to my NC address (I guess to prevent fraud and/or as double proof you live there), so I was given my MD license back by the DMV clerk who never once said what to do with it once I got my NC license....so I kept it.  Not a thing illegal in any way shape or form about that.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: maylaur on November 05, 2010 10:25:15 AM
This may have changed, but a long time ago in Washington, they gave you your old license back. They punched holes in it so you can't use it again, kind of like they do with old passports. Florida and Texas both kept the old licenses once you got your new one.

WA still punches holes and gives you back your old license. They also print out a paper "temporary" license to use until the official one arrives.

 KS cuts the corner off, then returns it to you.  I don't remember for certain, but I think MO does as well.

With the hole in it or the corner cut off, it is obviously an old (INVALID) license.

mysticspirit25, as soon as you acquire the new card in the new state, the old license becomes invalid.  The information is incorrect if you no longer live in that state or at that address.  It may not be illegal to KEEP the old one, but it is not exactly legit to USE it anymore.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: flacorps on May 12, 2011 10:12:40 PM
In some states drivers license numbers follow a quite predictable pattern:

http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/numbers/dl_us_shared.html
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: Flyingifr on July 22, 2011 06:06:35 AM
Or you could just check the box that says "do not give out my personal information to anyone" that appears on the drivers license application.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: brokeinaz on August 05, 2011 06:43:20 PM
A CA is claiming they did a skip trace and got a relative's # listed as mine.  I never lived at that address, he has not lived at my address, nor have we purchased anything together.  Is this possible or is it to justify their violation of the FDCPA?
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: CleaningUp on August 05, 2011 06:52:45 PM

If they did not mention the debt but merely asked for location information, it is perfectly legal.

CAs have the right to 3rd party contact for such purposes.

Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: brokeinaz on August 05, 2011 10:34:18 PM
She left a message stating they needed to speak with me and the name of their collection agency they are with, which has 'creditors' in the title.  Family member knew it was a collection agency.  They wrote down the message and passed it on to me.  I confronted the CA on this, they flat out denied it.  They said they log every call they ever make and they never called that number looking for me.  The caller ID picked it up, no way to hide that. 
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: CleaningUp on August 05, 2011 11:22:30 PM
"Amalgamated Hardware and Creditor Information Technologies" might pass muster as a name; the mere presence of the word "Creditor" in the name does not guarantee an FDCPA violation if it is used by a collector.

If their name is not a de jure violation, and your family member deduced that it was a collector, can they be held responsible for your family member's correct deduction?  That is going to be a stretch to get it to qualify as the collector being guilty of prohibited 3rd party disclosure.

Re:  Caller ID.  No way to hide it, true.  But there is very little chance that you can get that turned into evidence admissible to the court.

A third-party disclosure claim against this outfit is likely a stretch too far.

Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: coltfan1972 on August 05, 2011 11:44:59 PM
Re:  Caller ID.  No way to hide it, true.  But there is very little chance that you can get that turned into evidence admissible to the court.

That's the big problem.  It would probably take detailed discovery to obtain any call records. 
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: flacorps on August 06, 2011 12:38:04 AM
The caller ID should be admissible if a line owner takes a pic and swears the call came in. Affidavits to begin with, live testimony if needed.
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: CleaningUp on August 06, 2011 01:51:30 AM
Time...and phone calls...scroll the caller ID off the phone.  Mine stores the last 20.

Don't think the OP would really want the family member on the stand being cross-examined about her deduction/assumption. Might not help much.

I think OP should look...and wait...for other violations.  They will likely come in due course.

Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: brokeinaz on August 06, 2011 02:20:48 AM
The message was left 3 minutes after they left one on my cel phone that has my outgoing message with my name.  They knew they reached me at that point.  The last sentence in her message, 'this is an attempt to collect debt' I think that pretty much states what the purpose of the call was.  I confronted the person that left it, she denied it and said that they document all calls made and no one in their office ever called that number.  A flat out lie.  I spoke to another collector, who again flat out lied that no one in their office ever called that number.  I have both of their lies on tape.  They claimed they only called and left the voice message on my cel phone.  They know they up and are trying to cover it up. 

Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: CleaningUp on August 06, 2011 02:46:12 AM
If the statement "This is an attempt to collect a debt" was made to your family member, this  statement of yours:


...Family member knew it was a collection agency....


...is a material understatement...disingenuous one, actually, deliberate or otherwise.

Only you can tell us which.






Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: innocentme on August 06, 2011 04:14:07 AM
It is always fun trying to reconstruct what happened.  Sometimes it turns out as clear as mud. :whackacow2:
Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
Post by: brokeinaz on August 06, 2011 04:46:19 AM
Not a deliberate understatement.  Just didn't think to elaborate why.  The entire call was obvious but that statement made it easier to prove in court.  Even before that statement, leaving the name of the CA, she knew it was a CA.  It is my understanding they can't leave a message and identify who they are with and that it is regarding debt.  They can try to get information, but not disclose who they are or what they want.  She did both and put a cherry on top with the last statement.  CA claims they have a log of all incoming and outgoing calls, this one is not in their system.  2 CA denied that the number was ever dialed and their system wouldn't allow it to be dialed without logging it in their database. 

Title: Re: What Can a Skip Tracer Accompish?
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