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Arbitration / Fees Paid in Arbitration
« Last post by freedy on Yesterday at 04:42:05 PM »
Does anyone have the Jams rules for payment of fees (attorney,etc)if you
lose in Arbitration?

If the bank should be awarded a judgement .

One point about having the car in your possession when you file BK...

You may or may not be able to get it into the right auction, and the trustee isn't going to let you sell it in "the right auction" unless you do a lot of convincing that the return will be higher.

Oh, and remember, anything that you get from the proceeds if the auction don't go to you, they go to the trustee.

As for looking stupid to your father and his already knowing that fact...You're going to look more stupid if you run and hide and then drag this out for a few years at high percentage rates.

I don't think a trustee is going to look kindly on your paying the credit card companies back even WITH the cash being taken from you.  It is part of your financial estate. 

And if you think about it, going for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy will have the trustee distributing the proceeds, letting you off the hook for the hassle of returning it in a preferential way.   Why are you thinking about making the credit card companies whole when you are sticking it to everyone else?

A GOOD bankruptcy attorney in your area is the way to go.  Perhaps you should contact your personal attorney or hire your family business' attorney for a recommendation.  He is more qualified for finding a good BK legal eagle than most.  He might even take the case himself.
Arbitration / Re: JAMS Appeal
« Last post by ironfist on April 20, 2018 11:53:15 PM »
Riceman - Thank you for posting your experience. I don't have anything of substance to add, but I really appreciate you detailing your fight with discover through the JAMS process. Even if the outcome is not what you hoped for at the end, everyone here benefits from the information youv'e shared.

I do have a question - in your jurisdiction, would the arb award be confirmed by the court all at once or would each "winner" do so separately? For example, let's say the decision is the same after the appeal. You owe discover $5k and they owe you $1k. Would you have to confirm the $1k award separately on your own?

I does make me wonder how it could play out with a judgment proof person who was in a similar position. Discover would have their judgment but couldn't collect, while you'd get $1k from them.

In addition, does anyone have experience with OC's paying judgments against them? Do they typically pay when awarded or do they make you do the legwork to recover?
Arbitration / Re: JAMS Appeal
« Last post by Jane007 on April 20, 2018 09:45:58 PM »
It looks like they tacked on the fees for the arbitration.
Did the arbiter award them fees in the first arbitration?  Did they ever seek to confirm the first arbitration award?  What is the status of the appeal?  If the appeal was accepted and is in process the first award should be null and void.
You need to get a few consultations with an attorney before your post again. Line up three, go see the attorneys, and report back.

You should be able to get a sense of whether or not the attorney is likely to look out for your best interests or just wants to get you into the door so they can file your case and get you to pay their fees.

There are a lot of variables here. Sure, there are people who get themselves into mountains of debt (even borrowing irresponsibly, including taking vacations on that borrowed money), default, then remain judgment proof for a few years while remaining Chapter 7 eligible. They file for BK and get all their judgments (and other debt) discharged since the lookback period has long since passed. However, this is not the norm and most people don't (or can't) live their lives that way.

This is why an attorney's advice is so important.
Maybe you are starting to see the light.

A loan from your father is still a debt obligation, BTW. 
A car like that is not going to have the full value protected in most states. 

What you really, really, really need to do is to find one, possibly 2 or 3, BK attorneys and get a consultation.  Those are usually free.   Every state has different BK laws.  You need to figure out what you need to do. 

Paying back the credit card may be a good idea, or it may be a completely horrible idea. 

Just get to a lawyer.  Talk it out, see what your options are.  You may have to sell the car, and use some of the proceeds to buy a clunker with a value almost exactly what your state allows as an exemption.  You may want to file for BK very, very soon so that you will have it discharged before starting a new job. 

Yeah, not wanting your father to think you are a loser is understandable.  But don't destroy your life trying to cover up your mistakes. 

A settlement may or may not be a good idea. 

Here is one scenario.

After talking to an attorney, get a good estimate as to how much cash you would have at hand.  That would be split among your creditors, meaning your father, the CC company, and the traders.  Contact the CC company and the trade company.  See if they will take that amount as a settlement.  Mention that is what they would probably get in a BK process, although the lawyer would get a cut in BK and they could avoid that.  If they BOTH agree, you can settle, have the dings on your credit report for the next 7 years, and avoid BK.  If either one of the disagrees, you probably have to file BK. 

Sad, but true. 

The good news:  you can probably get this all out of the way before you start your new job.  You get a fresh start, no debts, a car that will run for a few years, and a decent job and future.  A true second chance. 
Believe it or not, today I'm starting to think that I might as well just go through bankruptcy. The reasons you are saying do make sense to me. I also had to make a decision recently if I am going to put a lien on the car to protect it, but I'm starting to think maybe I should just sell the car and move forward. I'm just opening up more can of worms.

I was also just looking over chapter 13 calculations and it doesn't make sense, then I started thinking about taking a lower paying job 50k vs 80k, just to pay less and keep the car, but that just seems stupid.

One of the big issues is this stupid collector car that I have. My father lent me money for it years ago, over 10 years, and I never paid him back. It has been sitting many years unused in his garage. He still mentions about taking it to car shows and what not, I'm just really not into it anymore but feel bad about selling it.

The other big issue is that I don't want my father knowing I'm a loser, well he already knows that but I don't want him to know just how bad a <Removed> up I am. I don't want him to know I had to sell the car because of bankruptcy. I was hoping to avoid all this by trying to somehow keep the car.

However, I'm starting to think I just don't want to deal with this <Removed> anymore, I am at the point where I would like to just take this car and drive it into the ocean, keeping it is causing me a lot of issues.

If it were not for this car I really don't have any other assets. I had only about 15K cash left when I went bankrupt, but after paying for the class I am taking right now to get my license for my 80K job, taxes for 2017, living expenses, and allowable exemptions, I really have almost no cash and may actually be in the negative.

Then all I have is that stupid car. How much it is worth? Well that really depends on how I sell it. If I was to sell it personally I could get a lot more, if it goes to auction it will be worth a lot less. I estimate at auction its worth 20K if I sell it I could get maybe 40K+. The reason I would get more if I sell it is because I can prove its miles and originality in the collector circle, in an auction after the car was seized I would not bother to do that. Trust me these numbers are about right, 20K at auction maybe less, 40K if I sell it personally.

So please help me out here, what should I do with this stupid car? Should I just let it go to auction and have someone in my family buy it back? Is that possible?

Is there a way I can work out selling it to family as part of the bankruptcy, but of course selling it at 20K as that is what I can prove its worth at auction. I don't think I'll bother buying it back for more than 30K, just don't want the issues.

Or just give up the car and go through bankruptcy as it would be like selling the car for over 100K?

This car is just driving me insane really and I its causing me so  much stress that I just want to get rid of it. Because right now I have basically no cash and just this stupid car.

This is also why I thought I would try and go for a settlement,  because I figure the car was worth enough to where a settlement would make sense. But I would only settle for a little bit over what the car was worth.

One other thing is I'm going to pay back those credit cards I borrowed the money from ASAP. I read there is a 90 day look back for priority payments. I borrowed that money specifically to trade with and haven't done that so I'm going to pay the credit cards back. Hopefully they won't bother to try and claim that money back from the credit cards after 90 days. But I guess that isn't my problem anymore once I claim bankruptcy.

I'm just really losing it at this point. I feel so constrained with all of this. I don't even want to do things to make money because I feel like I'm just going to lose it all anyway.

I also haven't heard one thing back from my creditor. They last sent a letter a few weeks ago saying that it was the final notice and they expected payment around april 10th at the latest or they would seek legal action and or sell my account to a 3rd party. Still haven't heard anything.

How many times does it need to be explained, that the BK courts look at one's financial situation, and that the financial situation of someone without a job is very, very different from the financial situation the OP will have later WITH a job. 

As in, there is a window for BK 7, which takes about 4-6 months to discharge.  If you miss the window, you could be stuck with BK 13, which means you will probably be paying a big chunk of whatever you earn for the next 3-5 years.  If you are talking about starting a new job in 4-6 months, and you don't file now, you will pay for your mistake for a long time.  Unless your job will pay little enough you can still use BK 7. 

Oh, and it gets worse.

Quite a few people wind up not being able to make the payments on Chapter 13.  If that happens, you could get stuck with the debt all over again. 

A good BK lawyer would tell you that, and tell you in detail what you can and cannot do.  If the BK lawyer can work out a way you can travel to Asia, then do so. 

If you just hop off to Asia, you could return home with $140k + in default judgments against you, and just about to start a new job that will make BK 7 impossible, you will be in a world of hurt for a VERY long time.   

We keep trying to tell you this, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

So, what the holy HECK is the point of you even posting here?  Not one person here can help you.  By this point, it is obvious you have your mind made up to follow a completely self-destructive path, and it appears you are here to get people to agree with you.


Do whatever you want.  Just realize that actions have consequences. 

Actually, I am an idiot myself for even answering your post.  I only did that so that if some lurker on the web is trying to use this thread for advice, maybe someone else will do something a bit more intelligent. 
Paying the $40K to the broker may be a really stupid move...It's interest rate is less than 1/3rd of the rate that you will get charged if you ever miss a payment to the CC company and about 1/2 at normal rates...Compare 8.25% with the default rate on cards of 29.9%. 

See foot, shoot foot.

The whole reason for getting out from under now is that this whole mess could possible follow you around for decades while filing BK now will essentially follow you, except for mortgage-like transactions, for at most a decade, and functionally only about four or five years.

And if there is even a hint that you obtained the margin credit with the assistance of your father's credit and co-signature, they are going to come after him.

Is that the way you want your father to be treated?

We really don't care if you go to Asia for a "vacation".  We don't even particularly care if you tank your finances for decades to come.

What we really don't like is seeing your self-interest take down someone who has been, and still is, being very kind to you.

Think about that for a while.
My father is a non-issue, I wasn't sure how they put me on the account at first but I had him contact the bank and I was put on as a beneficiary. I just assumed it was a joint account because I didn't even know you could be put on as a beneficiary.

Honestly, I wish I never borrowed that money from the credit cards as I had enough of my own cash to still go live in Asia, you guys told me that they would consider me paying back the credit cards as prioritizing a creditor. So I figured if that money, which is really the credit cards money in my opinion, will get paid to my broker and I'll have to bankrupt those accounts then why the heck should I pay the credit cards back right now?

Right now I'm just holding that money on the side in cash for emergency purposes.

My intention was never to claim bankruptcy but wait for a settlement, I'm going to assume that they will offer me some kind of settlement down the road.

If I find out that I'm not judgement proof as I expect, and stuff is looking bad, then I'll go file for bankruptcy. I'm not stupid enough to do anything drastic or fraudulent in that I would not be able to claim bankruptcy.

If they don't offer me a settlement then I'll look at my options and I may have to claim chapter 13 at worst.

I'm just trying to generate ideas here and its helpful you guys telling me how they are going to get me and how I won't be able to claim bankruptcy.

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