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[Rottweiler]

"The BBB S*cks!"

Following a lead in the "Hartford Courant" today (George Gombossy's 'CT Watchdog" consumer protection blog), I discovered a blog I was unaware existed:

http://www.bbbroundup.com/

Although this blogger's focus is on the Los Angeles, CA, area BBB, the commentary deals with the BBB--and their new grading system--all over the U.S.. Don't let the simple interface fool you, there is some hard-hitting stuff there.  Stuff that the BBB would rather you not know, such as what appears to be the "core" business at the L.A. office:

http://www.bbbroundup.com/LosAngelesBBB01.html

On March 30, 2009, the blogger posted about the L.A. BBB, formally known as Better Business Bureau of the Southland, Inc. .  Rather deceptive name, isn't it; one would think that this BBB was located in Dixie, not on the Left Coast.  "BBB Roundup"'s blogger took a closer look at the L.A. office, and found that the main focus of the  L.A. BBB's operation focuses on getting the word out to businesses...about themselves...

[T]he largest group of employees by far is the telemarketing group and they account for approximately 90% of all revenues received by the LA BBB.

According to the pie chart on the website, the telemarketing group (called the “Membership Representatives” ) uses methods that, well, one would expect any such business to use. These methods include:

1.)  The deceptive sales lead:

The most typical solicitation call from the LA BBB begins with the words “we’ve received a number of inquiries about your business,”...these inquiries are derived from either searches done on the LA BBB website for your business, or complaints about your business...

2.)  Being sold a Bill of Goods:

[It has been reported that BBB telemarketers have claimed to businesses that] “Uncle Sam will return your entire fee when you file your tax return” ...The LA BBB is not an accountant and should not be giving out tax advice.

and

3.)  Fear-Based marketing:

[T]he only way [for a business] to make complaints go away is to join the BBB...

In other words, the telemarketers at the BBB use the exact same tactics toward businesses as other telemarketers do toward the rest of us and are not above resorting to that "hard sell".  The irony is that, well...

[T]he BBB is quick to put out releases decrying aggressive telemarketing tactics such as their recent blasts at the auto warranty business. 

And we expect the BBB has our best interests in mind when they treat their core customer--businesses--like they do??

[Rottweiler]

The BBB also, it seems, is so focused on their public image that they will do almost anything to keep the "sunny side up".  The "Hartford Courant"'s Gombossy reprinted a letter forwarded him by the "BBB Roundup"'s owner, known by the pen name of "Jimmy Rivers".  This memo outlines an attempt of a top officer at the Better Business Bureau's national office, Steve Cox, to do some "damage control":

http://blogs.courant.com/george_gombossy/2009/04/bbb-new-ratings-secret-interna.html

This e-mail was sent by Cox warning other BBBs about the bbbroundup.com website and summarizing the BBB's assessment of the site:

* The site is principally an attack on the BBB system - and specifically cites some BBBs by name
* The site specifically attacks BBB Ratings along the lines of inconsistent/illogical grades, and not necessarily points for accreditation (although that issue is raised in parts of the site)
* The site also specifically attacks our member-funded business model
* The site also includes a host of other BBB system criticisms that span a range of topics
* The site operator/editor uses the pseudonym "Jimmie Rivers" and claims to be a former journalist
* The domain was privately registered on March 4, 2009
* The Web site is hosted abroad in Singapore/Australia
* The site lists a 310-497-4806 phone number which is in Santa Monica, CA - the number appears to be a cell number from Sprint

Assessment: While it's always concerning to see public criticism, the value and credibility of this site is greatly diminished by the use of the pseudonym and inability to verify sources. Essentially the site is not legitimate or transparent: its creator is unwilling to publicly disclose identifying information and, for this reason, I do not expect mainstream or legitimate digital media to use or reference the site.

Well...seems Mr. Cox is wrong already about the mainstream media.  

Never you mind that Mr. Cox already knew what he was saying is...well...

* If questioned about the site by any media, please refer them to me for comment.

* Recommend you inform your Boards of the site's existence - ...but ask them to consider such information confidential...

* Please do not personally publicize the site to any external audiences...

And whom may I ask is being less than "transparent" now?

[Creditwrench]

I read this post with quite a bit of interest because it just so happens that I received a sales call yesterday from a BBB salesman here in Oklahoma City. The caller used almost exactly the same pitch as outlined here. I'd say word for word except that it went quite a bit further than outlined here. The caller wanted $425 for a membership in the BBB. I gave him an excuse not to join yesterday but said I would consider it later. Then this morning I noticed this post.

There is another dark side to the BBS story that I learned several years ago. If you don't join and pay their hush money they will give callers negative information about your company. While they don't lie about companies they phrase their responses to queries in such a way that it looks very negative. Things such as "This company refuses to comply with BBB requests for information."

If your company strongly supports the BBB it won't get negative reports from them no matter how bad your firm's actual reputation might be. If anyone doubts that statement they need to ask the BBB about each of the 3 credit bureaus or such companies as NCO, ARROW and other major debt collectors. All those companies not only have evil reputations and are known violators of both federal and state consumer protection laws and are sued innumerable times by consumers yet the BBB won't say anything bad about them.

The caller did mention that the BBB is a nonprofit organization and that the membership fees are tax deductible. Now that I see your report here I begin to wonder whether that is actually true or not.

[Flyingifr]

This argument is not new on the Internet. Ed Magedson (owner of Ripoffreports.com) has had this information on his web site for years and even makes addenda to posts on RoR where the poster threatens to go to the BBB. He likens the BBB to a fox guarding a  the chicken coop.

DB has no position on the truth or merits of Magedson's position or of the BBB itself.

[cracrap]

as a former member of this chapter back in the early and mid 90's, i can tell u with first hand certainty that this is true..
it was always about being able to market your business with their advertising logo as if that somehow raises you above the level of your competition
at the time that i was a member the fee's were only 350.00 a yr
another benefit that they offered at the time was the ability to incorporate an arbitration provision in your business contracts which limited your exposure to the absurd high costs of litigation in the "litigation capital" of America

[Mischievous Smurfy]

You can't use an arbitration agreemnt unless you are a member of the BBB?

[itsmeagain]

If your company strongly supports the BBB it won't get negative reports from them no matter how bad your firm's actual reputation might be.

So, I was curious about what Creditwrench posted and I looked up a couple of CA's on the BBB website.  Here's what I found:

Arrow Financial:  Not a BBB member . . . Rated "F" . . . Based on exactly TWO complaints; Reporting "Closed - No Response". 
http://www.bbb.org/youngstown/business-reviews/financial-services/arrow-financial-corporation-in-new-middletown-oh-19001121

Asset Acceptance:  BBB member since 1997 . . . Rated "A+" . . . Based on 1082 complaints: Reporting "Closed - Resolved".
http://www.bbb.org/eastern-michigan/business-reviews/collection-agencies/asset-acceptance-llc-in-warren-mi-3004304

as a former member of this chapter back in the early and mid 90's, i can tell u with first hand certainty that this is true..

Yep, sure is!!

[DefLepGirl]

Asset Acceptance:  BBB member since 1997 . . . Rated "A+" . . . Based on 1082 complaints: Reporting "Closed - Resolved".

Oooooooooh Holy Mother!    

Now that's enough to convince ANYONE!   

[cracrap]

You can't use an arbitration agreemnt unless you are a member of the BBB?

u have to understand that at that time , arbitration wasnt the norm like it seems to be today..and it wasnt common in the construction industry at all
the BBB offered free services to the member rather than having to pay separate for them..
the auto industry used the BBB arbitration services almost exclusively in their contracts when it came to consumer disputes and the california lemon law