Author Topic: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication  (Read 34409 times)

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DefLepGirl

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2008 09:39:31 PM »
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gfg, this issue was bludgeoned to death here: http://www.debtorboards.com/index.php/topic,6219.0.html

Note the utter brilliance of a single putz fighting back the hordes...


 :vbdoh:
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I love quoting Fleppie / Deflepgirl -  E. Normis  (Ok he actually didn't say it but actions speak louder than words..... or in this case words speak louder oooh whatever he loves it!-

gfg

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2008 03:05:58 AM »
FDCPA.....that doesn't spell anything!

Putz, my brother, I wish i had been here for you!!

So there is case law where an agency can prove the validation notice was sent, no returned mail, not request for verification/validation in the 30 days, collection continues......

Someone show me case law where an agency violated because the debtor opened the letter 2 months after it was sent.....

Personally, i will send validation (though they aren't likely to pay anyway, there is NO WAY they will pay without it!), i don't care if it's a year and  a half after the initial 30 day period...then i will tell the debtor no pay arrangement, no settlement (unless i'm having a bad month!), payment in full or suit is the only option.....
gfg

DefLepGirl

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2008 03:56:31 AM »
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FDCPA.....that doesn't spell anything!


Oh yes it does....... T.R.O.U.B.L.E if ya violate........  :)

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Putz, my brother, I wish i had been here for you!!


Ahhh nevermind! 

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So there is case law where an agency can prove the validation notice was sent, no returned mail, not request for verification/validation in the 30 days, collection continues......

Someone show me case law where an agency violated because the debtor opened the letter 2 months after it was sent.....

Personally, i will send validation (though they aren't likely to pay anyway, there is NO WAY they will pay without it!),

Ok G-Man........ Time for a ?.......

What constitutes validation in your opinion......with the following scenarios....

1.  CC's
2.  Medical
3.  (anything else you can think of.)


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i don't care if it's a year and  a half after the initial 30 day period...then i will tell the debtor no pay arrangement, no settlement (unless i'm having a bad month!), payment in full or suit is the only option.....

Universal 2 Year SOL...... (I can only dream) 

Soooo if the consumer requests VOD...... and you provide it and they (down the road) say Hey you know what I have the $ now to make payments can I work something out with you....... U say no & demand payment in full? ?!?!?!   (before I start yelling at you I really want to know if I am reading that one wrong)   :P
~I'm not an attorney (nor) do I play one on the internet.. Take everything I *write* as just my personal opinion and experience~

I love quoting Fleppie / Deflepgirl -  E. Normis  (Ok he actually didn't say it but actions speak louder than words..... or in this case words speak louder oooh whatever he loves it!-

gfg

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2008 08:05:23 PM »
Sorry just got back....

Ok DLG--I will answer your question when someone answers mine--I asked a year ago on this board what a consumer considers validation...no replies.....period. So....quid pro quo DLG...I'll show you mine if you show me yours......

And still, someone needs to tell me about case law where a CA violated because the debtor CLAIMS to have received and /or opened the validation notice 2 months after it was sent.....
gfg

DefLepGirl

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2008 01:07:46 PM »
G~

I really think it *depends* on what the account (is) and what they send......

If it's a CC and they send one bill (Personally I wouldn't consider that validation)  Multiple Statements (showing the 30,60, 90 etc. etc. along with a copy of the user agreement (and) your signature) then yah...... I'd consider that validation....

But then ya better be able to show me that you have the right to collect......

Have an office in my state (ohio requirement)

and follow the law to the T.......

Hate me yet?  :)

I know people will disagree and argue until they are blue in the face over this one..... (which is fine) But it all goes back to the "method" for the CA / JDB   How much is this going to cost them to fight vs. how much is owed......   If you make a stink about the validation that was provided and they see that they just may have a alligator on their hands they may quickly change their mind about what THEY consider validation......

An argument can be made on anything..... It seriously is who has the best flutter of words to impress the judge with...... IF that were not the case...... Cases would not be overturned and new case law would never come into play.......

PS..... Ohio is ALOT tougher than folks think .....   It's a matter of really diving into the OCSPA and combining it with the FDCPA ..... Once that happens weeeeeell......
~I'm not an attorney (nor) do I play one on the internet.. Take everything I *write* as just my personal opinion and experience~

I love quoting Fleppie / Deflepgirl -  E. Normis  (Ok he actually didn't say it but actions speak louder than words..... or in this case words speak louder oooh whatever he loves it!-

Kitten

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2008 01:49:59 PM »
Leppie, if a CA is collecting for the OC, and they send you a single CC statement which has an ending balance that matches the demand amount, I think they've shown that the OC hired them to collect, and the amount they are trying to collect is the amount the OC told them to collect. If its a JDB, I'd want more than a single statement.

gfg

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2008 07:17:49 PM »


But then ya better be able to show me that you have the right to collect......

Have an office in my state (ohio requirement)

and follow the law to the T.......

Hate me yet?  :)

You know I don't hate you! And you know I would have nothing to fear calling into OH!

Now, if the state so requires licensing or permits or whatever else they may want, the agency is usually required to list that info on the letters that are sent.....other than that, the licensure is not required to validate a debt.....I can certainly see YOU requesting it, but it's not required "validation information" under the Act.
gfg

DefLepGirl

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2008 04:08:47 PM »
(Kitten- Remind me to send you an PM with a bill for me swatting at my laptop screen EVERY time I see a post from you  LOL ) That darn bug has gotten me EVERY flipping time! 

All joking aside I agree and disagree with you.....   Perhaps I am to over the top with my "Paper trail" beliefs but so far it's always worked for me and I expect NOTHING LESS of an opponent..... (which in this case was a CA)

So they take you to court and present a couple of bills with a matching balance to what they are trying to collect.....

Where's my list of payments?

Where's the signature card?

Are your reporting correctly? 

Have you followed the law to a T......

In more times than not....... One of those things will be a "no" ......


So for *me* validation is alot of things rolled into one..... it's the "whole ball of wax so to speak.......   and it's simply a matter of who builds more of a trail on the other.....  and who has the better arguement.....    Maybe I am wrong..... Maybe I am right..... 



~I'm not an attorney (nor) do I play one on the internet.. Take everything I *write* as just my personal opinion and experience~

I love quoting Fleppie / Deflepgirl -  E. Normis  (Ok he actually didn't say it but actions speak louder than words..... or in this case words speak louder oooh whatever he loves it!-

gfg

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2008 08:42:24 PM »
But DLG---the act says you can request validation of the DEBT within 30 days---not validation that I am as nice as I seem to be!!

You can certainly ASK, but other than what is required by federal and state statutes, I don't have to provide it....and as long as i have sent validation of the debt--hopefully meeting the majority of your definition--I can proceed.....

So...hate ME yet?
gfg

gfg

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2008 08:52:29 PM »
And since I promised, I will answer your questions from above---

A cc--pretty much the same as you say--except a list of payments-it could go on and on about that---I got a nice set of statements the other day for over 18k---no app, but broken down by authorized user--date, place, amount, etc---they couldn't deny it. BTW--the statements usually have the last payment amount on it as well...

Medical--You know i hate medical--Where I am at now, the majority of the clients will send the info direct from their office, then notify us WHAT they sent--no details, just a summary of what they sent. We do always have the financial responsibilty agreement on file.

Anything else? Student Loans, Personal Loans, Bad checks, etc--I will send Prom notes, applications, security pledges, copies of checks, collection notes, payment history....
gfg

DefLepGirl

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2008 09:04:53 PM »
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But DLG---the act says you can request validation of the DEBT within 30 days---not validation that I am as nice as I seem to be!!

Point taken........... But.......... :)   It only takes one time to not have all of your ducks in a row to loose..........  And only one arguement with the right judge to define exactly what validation is..........   

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You can certainly ASK, but other than what is required by federal and state statutes, I don't have to provide it....and as long as i have sent validation of the debt--hopefully meeting the majority of your definition--I can proceed.....

Unless ya got the kitchen sink AND a free magazine subscription in there don't count on it buddy! 

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So...hate ME yet?

Nope..........   :drinking:
~I'm not an attorney (nor) do I play one on the internet.. Take everything I *write* as just my personal opinion and experience~

I love quoting Fleppie / Deflepgirl -  E. Normis  (Ok he actually didn't say it but actions speak louder than words..... or in this case words speak louder oooh whatever he loves it!-

gfg

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2008 09:11:20 PM »
You and your darn magazines!! Jeez!!

I still beg to differ, my dear....if I send "Validation", I can proceed---certainly you can fight it at that point, and request all the other stuff you want, but....
gfg

DefLepGirl

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2008 09:24:30 PM »
What *you* sent is more than likely validation......... I know you and I know you play by the rules.......

So you probably have no worries.......

The problem is tho........ is when ya have a "cowboy" and an agency that supports that "cowboy" by placing FCRA violations and violating the FDCPA and State Consumer Laws........

Well that *validation* doesn't really matter anymore (if) the consumer fights back......

And (for the heck of it) I'd still argue even if one little piece of what I consider validation is missing....... 

Would the court get mad?  Quite possibly........ But if we don't stick up for our rights and our beliefs who will?   

Which kinda sorta brings another scenario into play (and your gonna pull your hair out on this one!) 

Say you send consumer validation....... That consumer happens to be in Ohio........  That consumer fights back......... You decide to sue consumer............Which in turn racks up 10-15K in legal fees for a 6-10K debt........

In Ohio those fees are not recoverable......... (Can't think of the case off of the top of my head but I do have it somewhere) 

~Oh Snap~   :P  (I'm approaching the hate level aren't I)
~I'm not an attorney (nor) do I play one on the internet.. Take everything I *write* as just my personal opinion and experience~

I love quoting Fleppie / Deflepgirl -  E. Normis  (Ok he actually didn't say it but actions speak louder than words..... or in this case words speak louder oooh whatever he loves it!-

gfg

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2008 09:27:18 PM »
Nah--you got a loooonnnggg way to go!!

You know I agree that if a CA violates, they should pay--then I go get their clients!

Subject was validation of DEBTS.....
gfg

BTO429

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Re: Understanding the 30 days of Initial Communication
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2008 01:55:22 AM »
What if the CA, inhouse, claims they mailed the initial communication while you were out of country, IRAQ, and you can not prove they did not. The ca continues to update monthlu but have neveer validated because I as out fo the country and did not DV them. Is this still a violation in the form of as communication?
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