Author Topic: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate  (Read 3582 times)

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Flyingifr

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The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« on: March 14, 2007 11:03:14 PM »
Got this little gem in the mail today from Chase......

"[b[Annual Percentage Rate (APR( for purchases:[/b] A 0% fixed APR until the first day of the billing cycle that includes 08/01/2008. After that, 9.99% fixed. (a)"


And what is the footnote "a"?

"a) Rates, fees, and terms may change. We reserve the right to change the account terms (including the APRs) at any time for any reason, in addition to APR increases that may occur for failure tocomply with the terms of the contract. For example, we may change the terms based on information in your credit report, such as the number of other credit cards you mhave and their balances. The APRs for this offer are not guaranteed; APRs may change to higher APRs, fixed APRs may change to variable APRs, or variable APRs may change to fixed APRs (my note - fat chance of that happening)."

(red highlighting and underlining mine for emphasis, all else is just as the literature has it)

So, the large print offers a fixed rate that the small print can take away at any time for any reason, or no reason. So what's so "fixed" about it?

Other horrible terms in this offer:

Minimum Cash Advance fee of $10.00 - so a $20 cash advance from an ATM costs you $10.00

BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

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Rottweiler

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007 11:23:59 PM »
Talk about "weasel language":

Got this little gem in the mail today from Chase......

"a) Rates, fees, and terms may change. We reserve the right to change the account terms (including the APRs) at any time for any reason, in addition to APR increases that may occur for failure tocomply with the terms of the contract. For example, we may change the terms based on information in your credit report, such as the number of other credit cards you mhave and their balances. The APRs for this offer are not guaranteed; APRs may change to higher APRs, fixed APRs may change to variable APRs, or variable APRs may change to fixed APRs." ...

So, the large print offers a fixed rate that the small print can take away at any time for any reason, or no reason. So what's so "fixed" about it?

Nothing.  Another attempt to trap the unwary.  A way of "hiding" a variable APR, which is almost certainly what will be offered.  Even if the fixed rate comes through initially, there are so many traps and pitfalls--sneezing in the wrong direction, it seems, could trigger the change--one should count on a variable APR before the ink is dry on the siggie on the card!

The conditions, it is clear, is the way that card issuers such as Chase are going to "make up" for the loss of "universal default".  It's virtually impossible to avoid falling afoul of them, no matter how good a financial manager one may be.  Note that they can still ratejack you if they don't like your credit card portfolio or the utilization of such...universal default as we know it might be dying, but this is basically the same thing,  limited to credit accounts only.

Quote
...

Minimum Cash Advance fee of $10.00 - so a $20 cash advance from an ATM costs you $10.00



And, if they don't get one on the other terms and conditions, the fees will make one bend over and...!  Especially on small cash advances:  They have to know that most cash advances are small and the $10 fee is outrageous...Louis the Loan Shark would be a bargain compared to that.  Did they get the idea for that beauty from payday loan shops??
“This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice."
~ Olver Wendell Holmes

bulldog

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007 04:05:45 AM »
A very long time ago (over 20 years) former husband and I had a Chase card.  After our divorce, I went through Consumer Credit to get help with the bills.  CCCS didn't like Chase because Chase would not negotiate.

In other words, avoid Chase like the plague. They're nothing but trouble and the "terms" offered on the card info you got, Flyingifr, just proves it even more.

Flyingifr

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007 03:11:34 PM »
A very long time ago (over 20 years) former husband and I had a Chase card.  After our divorce, I went through Consumer Credit to get help with the bills.  CCCS didn't like Chase because Chase would not negotiate.

In other words, avoid Chase like the plague. They're nothing but trouble and the "terms" offered on the card info you got, Flyingifr, just proves it even more.

And a very very long time ago (about 25 years or so) I was a Counselor and a Manager of a CCCS Office and Chase back then was one of our biggest supporters. They even gave us Chase personnel to come and work for us as Counselors (paid by Chase but counseling for CCCS).
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

Debtors Exams are the perfect place for us Senior Citizens to show off our recently acquired Alzheimers.

Founder of the Credit Terrorist Training Camp (Debtorboards)

Mischievous Smurfy

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007 08:51:59 PM »
What I don't understand is this ...

whatever it costs for the big cc companies to kickback/participate/support these CCCSs...  they would probably get a better return by developing thier own policies and programs for consumer directly ... instead of costing the consumer more money to pay the CCCS...  money that does not go to the cc company and does not make up for the losses in any discounts in fees, interest, costs of participating ...


I believe that developing some type of recovery program of thier own not only would be more cost effective ...  but create some goodwill in an industry that today has a rep. of being nothing but loan sharks ... a rep. they earned and deserve.

Not only that ... but many people could recover from a setback if given a chance ... currently there is no chance .. once you have missed a second monthly payments the slope is so slippery one cannot get back up.

Which means that the company could be retaining many customers that they are currently loosing forever...

The risk of loosing the hard ass appearance are far outwieghed by the potential gains...


And lets not even start in on the fact that many of the CCCSs are nothing but scams..  people that want to do the right thing and do pay ... but thier payments never get to where most of them were intended to go ...   this would be avoided with programs available through the creditors themselves..  and these scams are of no benifit at all to the creditors ... in fact they are a curse ...  that money could have gone to them ... but instead went into the pockets of criminals.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2007 08:56:55 PM by smurfy »
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bulldog

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2007 06:34:57 AM »
The actual Consumer Credit Counseling Services is a very legitimate and helpful organization.  They'd even tell you if the best option was to file BK since the debt/income ratio was too out of hand.  When I tried them, they wouldn't take me on because I really was so broke I couldn't pay attention.

What you're possibly thinking of, Smurfy, is the so-called credit negotiators that we see advertised on TV, in the papers and elsewhere.  They say they can negotiate with the creditors and help you get payments reduced, etc. but they are feeding the biggest line of ever seen.  They usually damage one's credit even worse because they have no integrity.  They're just in it for whatever money they can get before someone gets wise to them. Lots of them around.  Lots of potential business for attorrneys and courts.

 

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2007 09:42:10 PM »
The actual Consumer Credit Counseling Services is a very legitimate and helpful organization.  They'd even tell you if the best option was to file BK since the debt/income ratio was too out of hand.  When I tried them, they wouldn't take me on because I really was so broke I couldn't pay attention.


That is actually true.  I ended up filing BK all those years ago because I found a good, local one where the counselor told me the same thing.  (Note that they tell you to "Get an attorney." if this is the case--at least at that time, the word "bankruptcy" was not said outright.)

The term "CCCS" has been smeared by these debt settlement organizations and debt negotiators...and so-called CCCS' that are rip-offs (the for-profit ones).  The best way to get a good one is to look for a non-profit, locally based CCCS.  Even if they are one of the honest ones, a CCCS is NOT going to help your credit in the short to medium run and there is no way of forcing a recalcitrant creditor to go along with the program.  A true CH13 has the weight of the bankruptcy court behind it, will cause no more damage to the credit rating (in both cases, it will su*k for a long time).  In addition the creditors cannot say no to the plan from a BK Court.
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bulldog

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2007 05:30:41 AM »
They may object.  I had to go back to court on my Ch13 because GMAC objected to the fact that I could list my car at the low blue book value instead of what they said was owed.  Objection overruled!!

As far as credit rating being in the sewer, by the time one has to consult CCCS (or consider BK), the late payments, etc. have already damaged the credit for a while. 

Rottweiler

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Re: The Fixed Rate Card with the variable Rate
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2007 04:38:04 PM »
They may object.  I had to go back to court on my Ch13 because GMAC objected to the fact that I could list my car at the low blue book value instead of what they said was owed.  Objection overruled!!

Ok...they can object.  BUT, the Court has the final say, not the creditor.  And, that final say may be what a creditor does not want to hear...and the creditor on the BK Schedule HAS to accept the Court's jurisdiction and decisions!  At a CCCS, the creditor can object for any reason, or  none, and they can get away with it; the CCCS has no leverage--or jurisdiction--to make them accept the plan at all.

“This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice."
~ Olver Wendell Holmes