Author Topic: questions about civil procedure in WI  (Read 4371 times)

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burnttoast

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2017 07:56:54 PM »
Quote
Major, major, major question here.

Did the judge ever sign that scheduling order?


not to my knowledge I just received  what you seen yesterday via postal mail

I think many are thinking I am copying and pasting.... something i do but from statues

I blacked out all my cousins info but she just won last month  against JCS LLC (attached)

and I was writing my motion to Dismiss according to this document! I realize I must cite WI law, etc and got overwhelmed BUT that's why I posted finally in this forum. thank you  to everyone for the comments and advice !!!

Clydesmom66

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2017 09:05:02 PM »
Im open to any one recommending an attorney that will wait for payment or for them to pay my attorney fees ?

No attorney is going to take the case to defend you at trial and wait for payment.  You MIGHT find one to take it on contingency if you have iron clad FDCPA violations.  All you can do is consult a few consumer attorneys and see if one will bite.

my balance was not what they are saying and also the account numbers are different....they added almost 750 to the amount.

There are some legit reasons why the balance may be different.  Your last balance YOU remember when you defaulted could be $750 more easily with 6 months of 30% interest (yes, that is what Fingerhut charges) and $35 late fees.  6 months of late fees alone is another $210.  I explained earlier why there are different account numbers.  Jefferson (and every collection agency prior) assigns its own number.  It does not form the basis for a defense.

I also learned JCS LLC is a debt buyer and claims to be a creditor but I never signed a contract with them nor made payments ever.. chain of command plays in here with at least 3 others before JCS LLC bought the account... to name a few I just dont know how to word it right is all!!

Actually Jefferson Capital is both a collection agency and a JDB.  On some accounts they are only HIRED to collect they do not actually purchase the debts.  It is entirely possible they are the first buyer and the prior agencies were only collectors which would resolve the chain of title issue.  If it really has been sold 3 times then I would be doing discovery asking them to produce ALL forward flow agreements showing that this particular account passed to each creditor in succession and they indeed do have standing.

to be honest I was just going to repeat over and over in court per M&K instructions "Defendant is at this time without knowledge or information sufficient enough to form a factual opinion as to the truth of the allegation." I then googled defences and wisconsin statutes and this led to another link and ultimately this board!!!!

Repeating the same denial over and over gets you compelled by the court to cooperate.  You need to be creative and not repetitive on your answers.
Be VERY careful following advice from the internet! What worked for someone with thousands of posts on a message board may not work for YOU in your state.  Consult a lawyer when ever possible.

BrokeBob

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2017 09:27:45 PM »
Go onto CCAP.

Look up your case.  You will be able to find out if the judge signed this order or not. 

Realize, you are dealing with the slimiest collection law firm in the Midwest.  They might be trying to trick you into thinking this was ordered by the court when it really wasn't.  You can find out on CCAP if it really was.

Like I said, M&K does incredibly slimy things because they get away with it.  The Minnesota AG has been after them for many years, but hasn't ever been able to get anything to stick.   The vast majority of the time the consumer doesn't know what is going on, so they get away with it.  Other times the judges don't really care. 

The way things work, if this is a proposed order, written by M&K asking for the judge to sign, then they should've sent a copy to you and the courts before it was signed, so you would have a chance to object to it.  If they did that, and you didn't object, and the judge signed it, then they should send you a copy signed by the judge.  If all that happened and you ignored it, you are up the creek.

If they sent it to the judge and not you, then that is an ex parte communication, which is forbidden.  I wouldn't put it past M&K to do something like that, assuming they wouldn't get caught. 
If this is the first time you have seen it, and you never got a signed copy, OBJECT to the motion ASAP. 
Send in an objection on the grounds that you received the proposed order AFTER the deadline in the order. 

In the meantime, if I were in your shoes, I would do one of two things, the first one would be more effective.

1.  Check to see if there is an applicable arbitration agreement in the original contract.  If so, file a Motion to Compel arbitration.  Expect M&K to whine and complain and object, and probably lie through their teeth in the process.  But, you might just get the results you want.

2.  This may or may not be too late, but read up everything you can on Wisc. Stats. 422.409.  Lots of stuff on this forum.  Basically, it gives the standards the JDB must meet to prove they own the debt, IF YOU DEMAND THE INFORMATION. 

Admin0248

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2017 09:37:09 PM »


not to my knowledge I just received  what you seen yesterday via postal mail

I think many are thinking I am copying and pasting.... something i do but from statues

I blacked out all my cousins info but she just won last month  against JCS LLC (attached)

and I was writing my motion to Dismiss according to this document! I realize I must cite WI law, etc and got overwhelmed BUT that's why I posted finally in this forum. thank you  to everyone for the comments and advice !!!



I have been reading the laws since january... I should have posted i knew it was useless to file the debt validation request but i only learned that later... Also I have 45 days not 30 according to WI law Im looking for that now....

would you like me to delete my entire post then Id rather not waste anyones time. I have been apart of a secret group since last june studying laws and such I am working on a motion to dismiss on lack of standing and quite a few others. I was afraid to post for this very reason :(
Here are my defences thus so far:


OP is reminded that the conventions for the proper use of written English as found in any reputable style manual apply to postings on this board.

Posting from a cell phone or other mobile device is not an excuse for failing to adhere to our rules.

On the matter of a "secret" group staying the law, Debtorboards and it's parent organization, Debtorboards, Inc. disavows such a grouping, and if we find that Debtorboards' is being used in any way to foster such a group, swift corrective action will be taken.

The unlicensed practise of law is illegal in every state in the union.  We do not allow it on our pages

We will quickly suspend the membership of anyone, or the members of and "secret group", if we suspect such illegal activity and permanent​ly ban them if the allegation is proven.

Further, if CB becomes part of any legal action as a result of such illegal activity, we shall hold those causing such litigation responsible for our the costs of our defense.

burnttoast

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2017 10:39:17 PM »
Quote
OP is reminded that the conventions for the proper use of written English as found in any reputable style manual apply to postings on this board.

Posting from a cell phone or other mobile device is not an excuse for failing to adhere to our rules.

On the matter of a "secret" group staying the law, Debtorboards and it's parent organization, Debtorboards, Inc. disavows such a grouping, and if we find that Debtorboards' is being used in any way to foster such a group, swift corrective action will be taken.

The unlicensed practise of law is illegal in every state in the union.  We do not allow it on our pages

We will quickly suspend the membership of anyone, or the members of and "secret group", if we suspect such illegal activity and permanent​ly ban them if the allegation is proven.

Further, if CB becomes part of any legal action as a result of such illegal activity, we shall hold those causing such litigation responsible for our the costs of our defense.

sorry I'm not sure what you mean by proper english what did I say wrong? I am on my laptop in this forum not my smart phone. I realized when re-reading the comment you are quoting - AND  its not a group within this board....its on the internet and I will give you the website if you want it... they sell a a digital book that I legally bought last June and anyone buying the book is a part of the private facebook group by paid owners of their book published. so forgive me , my post should have said "the credit secret group" CAN AN ADMIN JUST PLEASE DELETE ALL MY POSTS AND ATTACHMENTS.... I dont want any trouble
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017 11:34:00 PM by burnttoast »

burnttoast

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2017 10:45:14 PM »
Go onto CCAP.

Look up your case.  You will be able to find out if the judge signed this order or not. 

Realize, you are dealing with the slimiest collection law firm in the Midwest.  They might be trying to trick you into thinking this was ordered by the court when it really wasn't.  You can find out on CCAP if it really was.

Like I said, M&K does incredibly slimy things because they get away with it.  The Minnesota AG has been after them for many years, but hasn't ever been able to get anything to stick.   The vast majority of the time the consumer doesn't know what is going on, so they get away with it.  Other times the judges don't really care. 

The way things work, if this is a proposed order, written by M&K asking for the judge to sign, then they should've sent a copy to you and the courts before it was signed, so you would have a chance to object to it.  If they did that, and you didn't object, and the judge signed it, then they should send you a copy signed by the judge.  If all that happened and you ignored it, you are up the creek.

If they sent it to the judge and not you, then that is an ex parte communication, which is forbidden.  I wouldn't put it past M&K to do something like that, assuming they wouldn't get caught. 
If this is the first time you have seen it, and you never got a signed copy, OBJECT to the motion ASAP. 
Send in an objection on the grounds that you received the proposed order AFTER the deadline in the order. 

In the meantime, if I were in your shoes, I would do one of two things, the first one would be more effective.

1.  Check to see if there is an applicable arbitration agreement in the original contract.  If so, file a Motion to Compel arbitration.  Expect M&K to whine and complain and object, and probably lie through their teeth in the process.  But, you might just get the results you want.

2.  This may or may not be too late, but read up everything you can on Wisc. Stats. 422.409.  Lots of stuff on this forum.  Basically, it gives the standards the JDB must meet to prove they own the debt, IF YOU DEMAND THE INFORMATION.

thank you.... im very familar with ccap... but it doesn't show on my end what documents are filed. If youd like to pm me i will give you the case number and show me how to find it other than traditional public records?

burnttoast

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2017 11:26:50 PM »
1. I applied back in 2009 (THEY SAY 2010) online... I do not have the original contract.... either do they I am sure and I filed a Request for Production of Documents already within the courts.

2. The bill of sales is already attached and it switched hands many many times (according to their documents) ... my argument is ... the 1st bill of sales clearly states not including FINGERHUT... it should be a win win situation I just need the right "tools" and words to say!!

3. according to WISCONSIN law, the plaintiff has to prove evidence and I seriously have only what I have submitted in this forum .... and wisconsin law clearly states evidence is important and if they cannot prove all charges I feel I WIN. I need to induce doubt or at least make the judge question the charges...

again, I so appreciate each and every response and comment .... it is valuable to me ... and I am thankful you are all giving advice and input.

4. whether they are right or not the law is on my side and they have to produce the evidence accordingly.

5. I want to file my motion by Monday the 3rd... and I will with what I have in hand and cite code and laws .... and consumer protection act says they have to provide all cc charges etc....and ALL payments .... If i say I don't remember for which I'm really don't... and I'm not lying ... I just don't have evidence to back that up because I recieved statements online never actually paper statements - butTHEY must prove it that... what I owe ... line by line ... if they cannot, the odds that they will be successful is zero.

BrokeBob

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2017 02:16:40 AM »
The complaints the Admin had about your writing is the sentence structure.

Like it or not, that is important in this forum.  That means starting the sentences with Caps.  That means proper paragraph breaks.  That means no ... in the middle of a paragraph.  That is what the Admin complained about. 

The reason is, people on this forum need to be able to write court documents.  You can't write just any style you want in a court document.  They want you to get in practice of doing it right.  Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. 

Agree or disagree, those are the forum rules, and they enforce them. 

BrokeBob

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2017 02:18:32 AM »
If you want to PM me the info on CCAP, I will take a look at it.  Obviously, I cannot give legal advice.  I can see what is on the public record and see what that means.  Clarification of the public record, NOT legal advice. 

Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2017 12:49:29 PM »
according to WISCONSIN law, the plaintiff has to prove evidence and I seriously have only what I have submitted in this forum


That's not exactly how it works. The Plaintiff presents evidence to the court. It is your job to challenge it on legal grounds and cast doubt on it, like you see defense attorneys do in criminal cases. If you don't, the Court will accept their evidence as true. The judge won't do your work for you or help you with your defense.

That applies to this "line by line" fantasy you are laboring under. No court is going to force a Plaintiff to sit there for two weeks explaining what you bought and when; the statements speak for themselves. Again, it is your job to dispute any charges you think aren't yours, etc.  Truth in Lending / Billing errors lays out the procedure. If you never took advantage of it, the charges will be accepted as true, which I assume they are.


If you try this in court, you'll lose. The judge will say something to the effect of "fine, you dispute these charges. Where is your evidence?" That shuts you down. You need to read the rules of evidence. Try chapters 908 and 910 for starters.
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

burnttoast

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2017 01:37:24 PM »
To Bruno the JDB Killer and BrokeBob: Thank you for your input and for taking the time to respond to my questions. I also understand all comments and/or responses are not legal advice.

I do have a question now. After finding out how I can see details online, I've discovered (highlighted in red) that they requested to appear by phone and the courts said NO, yet they still called in disregarding the court's answer. I am reading the statute now regarding civil rules.

02-16-2017
Letters/correspondence
Additional Text:
Letter from Messerli & Kramer, requesting phone appearance. Replied no since court minutes stated parties must appear.

   
02-18-2017
File Retained Electronically

   
03-06-2017
Status conference
Additional Text:
Case was called at 1:43. Attorney XXXXXX appeared by phone for the plaintiff. Defendant XXXXXXXX appeared in person. This is a status conference continued from February 6, 2017. Ms. XXXXXXX asks for this matter to be thrown out. She feels the plaintiff did not bother showing up feeling the defendant would not contest this and a default judgement would be entered. Ms. XXXXXXX stated she is being assisted by Legal Aid. The Court informed her she would need to file a motion. Attorney XXXXXXXX would like to file a motion of summary judgement on the plaintiff's behalf. A hearing on motions will be scheduled 4/17/17 at 2:00 pm. Attorney XXXXXXXX will prepare the order.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017 02:01:41 PM by burnttoast »

Clydesmom66

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2017 05:41:39 PM »
Case was called at 1:43. Attorney XXXXXX appeared by phone for the plaintiff. Defendant XXXXXXXX appeared in person. This is a status conference continued from February 6, 2017. Ms. XXXXXXX asks for this matter to be thrown out. She feels the plaintiff did not bother showing up feeling the defendant would not contest this and a default judgement would be entered. Ms. XXXXXXX stated she is being assisted by Legal Aid. The Court informed her she would need to file a motion. Attorney XXXXXXXX would like to file a motion of summary judgement on the plaintiff's behalf. A hearing on motions will be scheduled 4/17/17 at 2:00 pm. Attorney XXXXXXXX will prepare the order.

UGH.  The Plaintiff phoning in an appearance is the LEAST of your problems right now.  Had you argued for sanctions when it happened you likely would have got somewhere but it is WAY too late now.  If they try to do it again you argue the court ruled against them and required all parties presence in the court room.

Your major problem is you asked that the case be tossed and the court duly informed you to file a Motion to Dismiss.  There is a time limit to do that and if you missed it you gave the Plaintiff a gold plated reason to oppose your motion to the court and the law ties the courts hands on that issue.  The Plaintiff also informed you they intend to move for Summary Judgment so you better be moving heaven and Earth to find out how to oppose and argue against that.
Be VERY careful following advice from the internet! What worked for someone with thousands of posts on a message board may not work for YOU in your state.  Consult a lawyer when ever possible.

BrokeBob

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2017 05:43:59 PM »
I looked at your case on CCAP.

The most important parts are the status conference, and the scheduling order they sent on March 28.

The trouble is, I don't know if the dates in the scheduling order were the same as dates the judge ordered in the scheduling conference. 

Here is why that is important.  The court got the scheduling order AFTER the date by which you were supposed to file your motions.  That is sneaky and slimy, but M&K are sneaky and slimy.  No surprise.  Judges usually side with the plaintiffs in these cases, and look the other way at slimy stuff. 

If the judge agreed to those dates verbally in the scheduling conference, those dates are valid.  A verbal order over the phone is just as valid as a written order.

If the judge did NOT agree to those dates, then you have grounds for objecting to the order, since the dates in the order were earlier than the order.  In fact, you should object to that anyway, on those grounds, just in case.

You need to have your motions right away.  Maybe the court will agree with you, maybe not.  Your MTD will be based on them not showing up, plus any other valid reasons you may have. 

You also really, really need to know if the agreement has an arbitration clause.  If so, file an MTC right away, and hope it is not too late. 

You also need to prepare for their MSJ, which will be coming very soon. 

burnttoast

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2017 06:14:57 PM »
UGH.  The Plaintiff phoning in an appearance is the LEAST of your problems right now.  Had you argued for sanctions when it happened you likely would have got somewhere but it is WAY too late now.  If they try to do it again you argue the court ruled against them and required all parties presence in the court room.

Your major problem is you asked that the case be tossed and the court duly informed you to file a Motion to Dismiss.  There is a time limit to do that and if you missed it you gave the Plaintiff a gold plated reason to oppose your motion to the court and the law ties the courts hands on that issue.  The Plaintiff also informed you they intend to move for Summary Judgment so you better be moving heaven and Earth to find out how to oppose and argue against that.

I did not even find out until today that their request to appear by phone was denied. So how can any proceedings legally move forward ? I have contacted lawyers and will wait upon their response. I will go to the courthouse tomorrow and ask to talk to the judge or ask local court rules  with the staff. I live in a fairly small town and I feel they will be fair in answering any questions concerning local court rules.  I was just thinking how can any motions be filed or how can one continue after the attorney was denied his request to appear by phone yet he still called and the hearing still continued? UGH

burnttoast

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Re: questions about civil procedure in WI
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2017 06:25:36 PM »
I looked at your case on CCAP.

The most important parts are the status conference, and the scheduling order they sent on March 28.

The trouble is, I don't know if the dates in the scheduling order were the same as dates the judge ordered in the scheduling conference. 
I'm going to the courthouse tomorrow morning  to find out dates and details to your valid points.  Thank You very much!

If the judge did NOT agree to those dates, then you have grounds for objecting to the order, since the dates in the order were earlier than the order.  In fact, you should object to that anyway, on those grounds, just in case.
Quote
You need to have your motions right away.  Maybe the court will agree with you, maybe not.  Your MTD will be based on them not showing up, plus any other valid reasons you may have. 
You also really, really need to know if the agreement has an arbitration clause.  If so, file an MTC right away, and hope it is not too late. 

You also need to prepare for their MSJ, which will be coming very soon.
I am working on my MTD and their probable MSJ right now! I have no agreement in my possession as it was from about 2009 and I applied online. UGH