Author Topic: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?  (Read 1954 times)

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Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2017 01:00:59 PM »
Tell it to a judge and see if he agrees. That aside, fraudulent conveyances have a statute of limitations just like anything else. Doing any of this after a suit has been filed is not a good idea.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017 01:09:32 PM by Bruno the JDB Killer »
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

cabot_lane

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2017 02:24:49 PM »
Disposing of refers to placing the asset beyond the reach of your creditors.

 :vbrofl:


11181986

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2017 02:36:06 PM »
Tell it to a judge and see if he agrees.

I'd probably never get the opportunity, as while I believe a majority of low level creditor attorneys are dumb, I do not think they would be this dumb.   

Flyingifr

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2017 04:25:32 PM »

Disposing of refers to placing the asset beyond the reach of your creditors. I'd love to hear your argument that would convince a judge otherwise.

No, Bruno. Disposing of something means giving up ownership of it. If you get "value for value" there is nothing a Court will do. If you simply give it away to keep a creditor from getting it, you may have a problem - but as long as you simply change its location or character (such as changing traceable and attachable bank account money into untraceable Travelers Checks) you have not disposed of anything. You still own it - it's just in a different place and in a different form.
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

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Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2017 06:09:02 PM »
Just semantics, the basic theory is somewhat flawed.
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

BellEbutton

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2017 06:31:36 PM »

Disposing of refers to placing the asset beyond the reach of your creditors. I'd love to hear your argument that would convince a judge otherwise.

Disposing of an asset also places it out of the reach of the former owner.   If that asset is still within your reach (such as under your mattress), you haven't disposed of it.  And, no, it isn't semantics.

DISPOSE

Black's Law Dictionary

To exercise finally, in any manner, one's power of control over; to pass into the control of someone else; to alienate, relinquish, part with, or get rid of; to put out of the way; to finish with; to bargain away.



cabot_lane

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2017 07:28:14 PM »
Disposing of an asset also places it out of the reach of the former owner.   If that asset is still within your reach (such as under your mattress), you haven't disposed of it.  And, no, it isn't semantics.

DISPOSE

Black's Law Dictionary

To exercise finally, in any manner, one's power of control over; to pass into the control of someone else; to alienate, relinquish, part with, or get rid of; to put out of the way; to finish with; to bargain away.

In other words just semantics.   :vbrofl:

Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2017 08:35:59 PM »
I'd probably never get the opportunity, as while I believe a majority of low level creditor attorneys are dumb, I do not think they would be this dumb.   


Backing down from our argument, are we?
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2017 08:41:31 PM »
Disposing of an asset also places it out of the reach of the former owner.   If that asset is still within your reach (such as under your mattress), you haven't disposed of it.  And, no, it isn't semantics.

DISPOSE

Black's Law Dictionary

To exercise finally, in any manner, one's power of control over; to pass into the control of someone else; to alienate, relinquish, part with, or get rid of; to put out of the way; to finish with; to bargain away.



The statute rules, not a dictionary. From the FLA statute I posted:


"Transfer" - 726.102(12) - means "every mode, direct or indirect, absolute or
conditional, voluntary or involuntary, of disposing of or parting with an asset or
an interest in an asset, and includes payment of money, release, lease, and
creation of a lien or other encumbrance."


You think you can come up with an argument to weasel out of this language? I can't wait to hear it.

"Hello, Your Honor, I emptied my bank account of 30K after I got a judgment against me and I refuse to tell you what I did with the money and there isn't squat you can do about it."

"Really?" (Richard Rawlings moment where he runs his hands over his hair) "What color sheets do you want in your cell?"
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

Dollar short

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2017 08:47:34 PM »


The statute rules, not a dictionary. From the FLA statute I posted:


"Transfer" - 726.102(12) - means "every mode, direct or indirect, absolute or
conditional, voluntary or involuntary, of disposing of or parting with an asset or
an interest in an asset, and includes payment of money, release, lease, and
creation of a lien or other encumbrance."


You think you can come up with an argument to weasel out of this language? I can't wait to hear it.

"Hello, Your Honor, I emptied my bank account of 30K after I got a judgment against me and I refuse to tell you what I did with the money and there isn't squat you can do about it."

"Really?" (Richard Rawlings moment where he runs his hands over his hair) "What color sheets do you want in your cell?"


There is no judgement at this time. The foreclosure has been going on for 6 years. Trial may be in June and if I lose an appeal can take over a year for a decision.

BellEbutton

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2017 08:55:06 PM »


The statute rules, not a dictionary. From the FLA statute I posted:


"Transfer" - 726.102(12) - means "every mode, direct or indirect, absolute or
conditional, voluntary or involuntary, of disposing of or parting with an asset or
an interest in an asset, and includes payment of money, release, lease, and
creation of a lien or other encumbrance."


You think you can come up with an argument to weasel out of this language? I can't wait to hear it.

"Hello, Your Honor, I emptied my bank account of 30K after I got a judgment against me and I refuse to tell you what I did with the money and there isn't squat you can do about it."

"Really?" (Richard Rawlings moment where he runs his hands over his hair) "What color sheets do you want in your cell?"

And you think you're making sense?

The statute does not define "dispose", does it?   You still haven't come up with any definition defined by law or statute that defines "dispose" as "still in one's possession". 

I take it that when you "dispose" of your garbage, it's still in your possession but you're keeping it out of the reach of the garbage collector?

From the FL Supreme Court:

[A] court may refer to a dictionary to ascertain the plain and ordinary meaning which the legislature intended to ascribe to the term." L.B. v. State, 700 So. 2d 370, 372 (Fla. 1997).

BrokeBob

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2017 11:59:21 PM »
Scenario A: 
Person takes money out of a bank account, discloses the money as assets when and if required by the court.   Not illegal in any way.

Scenario B: 
Person converts bank account money to cash, lies about it when asked by the court. Illegal.

Other funny stuff such as gifting  the money to relatives is ok in some situations but not others.  If it is done with the understanding that the money be returned at some later date, could very well be fraudulent.

It is not removing $ that is illegal. It is doing something fraudulent afterwards that is illegal.

Dollar short

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2017 12:54:10 AM »
Brokebob - As I stated before this money is exempt retirement money.

Dollar short

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2017 08:16:18 PM »
I am going to discuss this issue with an asset attorney tomorrow. If anyone has any suggestions for this conference, please post them. Thank-you.

Flyingifr

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Re: Is keeping cash versus a bank account a good way to avoid collectors?
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2017 09:56:37 PM »
Brokebob - As I stated before this money is exempt retirement money.

Then keep it in an exempt account. The money can lose its exempt status if you move it around.
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

Debtors Exams are the perfect place for us Senior Citizens to show off our recently acquired Alzheimers.

Founder of the Credit Terrorist Training Camp (Debtorboards)