Author Topic: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance  (Read 20435 times)

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Jane007

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #165 on: August 11, 2017 05:01:28 PM »
Discover will get their money - it's just a matter of when.

Are you sure that you mean to say "money" and not "award" and/or "judgment"?

Jane007

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #166 on: August 11, 2017 05:44:45 PM »
It is just frustrating that direct questions rarely seem to get direct answers.

Thankfully I do have a 'smart' partner and she spent hours here searching for answers to the specific questions.  This post was most helpful. 

http://www.debtorboards.com/index.php/topic,28736.0.html

You've got the right idea in searching the forum.  Some idea of the stepwise process of going through an arbitration is present here on the forum, it is just scattered all over in different posts.  Also, the search terms that will yield the best information for some particular question are not always obvious, so it might take lots of time searching and reading.

Also, have you read this thread from the beginning in awhile?  Some of your recent posts express surprise about issues that you were explicitly warned about towards the very beginning of the thread.

It seems we need to make sure to request in person hearing here.  We need to request at our expense a court reporter.  We need to deny the debt and since no debt validation was provided, we need to done in discovery.  We need to confirm the formal complaint.  We need to request subpoena's of phone records.  We need to request possible depositions from those who are validating the debt and so forth. 

Some have suggested that the in-person hearing date not be scheduled until discovery is complete, otherwise OC might stall discovery to get to the in-person hearing date without providing any discovery.

The appropriate types of objections and motions that might be necessary as a reactive response during arbitration will take experience to learn.  Arbitration is secret so there is no public record.  Many lawyers don't understand the process.  Specifics are hard to find anywhere, but to the extent that they can be found at all - this forum is one of the few sources.

As was stated several times earlier in the thread; Discover will likely go to end of the initial arbitration and the appeal arbitration.  If you go along the whole way, you will learn a lot, but it will be exhausting (unless you enjoy this sort of thing) and it will take up years of your life.   It requires a subjective evaluation of cost vs. benefit.  Only you can decide if it is worth it to you.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017 05:59:01 PM by Jane007 »

Jane007

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #167 on: August 11, 2017 06:27:02 PM »
OP: Are you worried about incurring more medical debts?  If not, why are you waiting on the bankruptcy filing?  Seems like an awful lot of work to put into this endeavor just to buy yourself some time.  Might be different if you had FDCPA claims and stood to get some money and/or a favorable settlement but I don't see any of that from my read through this thread.

Bankruptcy filing fee is $335.  You can pay it in installments (Form 3A) or request a waiver (Form 3B) if your income is below 150% of the poverty line.  Four installments would be $83.75/ea.

Don't normally recommend a pro-se bankruptcy, but you're putting all this effort into pro-se legal work anyway, and assuming a no-asset Chapter 7 it would be fairly straightforward......

Food for thought.
+1
The above advice is worth considering.  Just be sure to understand the implications of having a bankruptcy in the public record for the rest of your life.  If you become fully informed and can live with the implications, you can end all of this right away.

Some here have spent years beating back legal action and have come out on the other side without having to file bankruptcy and are glad that they didn't have to file, but it can take a lot of work and time.

If you have low assets and low income and no credentials that would be impacted by having a bankruptcy record, then it might be worth asking what is stopping you from filing.

Of course, if you have low assets and low income, any judgments will go unsatisfied anyway so maybe there is no immediate reason to be hasty with your decision.

CleaningUp

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #168 on: August 11, 2017 07:29:16 PM »

OP: Are you worried about incurring more medical debts?  If not, why are you waiting on the bankruptcy filing?  Seems like an awful lot of work to put into this endeavor just to buy yourself some time.  Might be different if you had FDCPA claims and stood to get some money and/or a favorable settlement but I don't see any of that from my read through this thread.



A fine example of looking for the special sauce.

delandra

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #169 on: August 11, 2017 07:44:02 PM »
Of course, if you have low assets and low income, any judgments will go unsatisfied anyway so maybe there is no immediate reason to be hasty with your decision.

I can only speak for myself....

Bankruptcy #1, I didn't know any better, debts were only 12-18 months from SOL and another 12 months from SOLR, and I hadn't been sued.  Had I known about the "FlyingIFR Method" I would have considered continuing to lay low and run out the clock.  I had already frustrated the skip tracer; nobody had anything on me other than a PO Box, which I "forgot" to update when my physical address changed, which is probably why I was never sued.

That said, I don't regret the filing.  Got me a fresh start 12 to 30 months sooner than I otherwise would have had it.

Bankruptcy #2, Debts were all fresh, not even 30 days late yet, but I was well and truly buried, and the process wasn't remotely intimidating since I had already gone through it.  Knew about "FlyingIFR method" by now, but I was easy to find, facing at least six years of battles, and more to the point mentally exhausted from my life situation and pending divorce.  Didn't have it in me to fight.  Easiest decision I ever made.

Nobody can make the decision for you; all I can say is I've never known anyone that regretted it.

Be strategic about it, don't do it if you see more medical bills on the horizon, because you'll be stuck for eight years.   Just keep in mind that three or four months from the day you file you'll be free and clear.  What you do at that point is up to you.

Jane007

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #170 on: August 11, 2017 08:05:01 PM »

OP: Are you worried about incurring more medical debts?  If not, why are you waiting on the bankruptcy filing?  Seems like an awful lot of work to put into this endeavor just to buy yourself some time.  Might be different if you had FDCPA claims and stood to get some money and/or a favorable settlement but I don't see any of that from my read through this thread.



A fine example of looking for the special sauce.

What is the example and how is it a fine one?

CleaningUp

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #171 on: August 11, 2017 10:45:12 PM »

OP: Are you worried about incurring more medical debts?  If not, why are you waiting on the bankruptcy filing?  Seems like an awful lot of work to put into this endeavor just to buy yourself some time.  Might be different if you had FDCPA claims and stood to get some money and/or a favorable settlement but I don't see any of that from my read through this thread....


He seems to forget that if one has a bad case in court, one is going to have a bad case in arbitration.

There appears to be no coherent strategy other than kicking the can down the road since bankruptcy tears up the road and starts laying down a new one.

There are times when one is only electrocuting oneself if one doesn't pull the plug.  Life's too short to muddle around while choosing the road to go down when it is obvious that that is the road to take.  But muddle the OP is doing.

As is often said in the military...make a decision...Make a good decision or a bad decision, but make a decision and get on with the task.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2017 10:55:08 PM by CleaningUp »

TM97

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #172 on: August 13, 2017 01:47:47 PM »
OP: Are you worried about incurring more medical debts?  If not, why are you waiting on the bankruptcy filing?  Seems like an awful lot of work to put into this endeavor just to buy yourself some time.  Might be different if you had FDCPA claims and stood to get some money and/or a favorable settlement but I don't see any of that from my read through this thread.

Bankruptcy filing fee is $335.  You can pay it in installments (Form 3A) or request a waiver (Form 3B) if your income is below 150% of the poverty line.  Four installments would be $83.75/ea.

Don't normally recommend a pro-se bankruptcy, but you're putting all this effort into pro-se legal work anyway, and assuming a no-asset Chapter 7 it would be fairly straightforward......

Food for thought.

My girlfriend and I are not married.  We both have creditors suing us for defaulted debt from last year when my health was bad and her work was insufficient to support us both.  I have started working again about part time but may indeed have more medical debts.  She started exploring the process of bankruptcy but the lawyers she talked to started at over $1000.00 and some were pushing Chapter 13 instead of 7. 

I went through a bankruptcy almost 20 years ago with an ex-wife.  Even then without assets and such, we used a lawyer.  I suppose we could look into doing it pro se but I know much has changed since the 2004 changes to bankruptcy filing. 

I am trying to avoid us both filing bankruptcy because that will severely hamper our plans for several years.  We are not 'young' and 10 years for one to fall off is bad enough but for two when we marry may be even more difficult to deal with especially as we would like to buy a house in the not too distant future after we are married.  My debt is much less and I am trying to get things into reasonable settlement territory. 

If we can do the same with her and avoid bankruptcy all the better.  Some have said even in this thread that they were able to get such a thing.  I don't think I am being particularly unreasonable to attempt the same.  And we all are saving towards a bankruptcy even as we go through this process. 

Thanks for the input and I will look into what is necessary for her to do a pro se bankruptcy.  :)

TM97

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #173 on: August 13, 2017 02:00:37 PM »
You've got the right idea in searching the forum.  Some idea of the stepwise process of going through an arbitration is present here on the forum, it is just scattered all over in different posts.  Also, the search terms that will yield the best information for some particular question are not always obvious, so it might take lots of time searching and reading.

Also, have you read this thread from the beginning in awhile?  Some of your recent posts express surprise about issues that you were explicitly warned about towards the very beginning of the thread.

Some have suggested that the in-person hearing date not be scheduled until discovery is complete, otherwise OC might stall discovery to get to the in-person hearing date without providing any discovery.

The appropriate types of objections and motions that might be necessary as a reactive response during arbitration will take experience to learn.  Arbitration is secret so there is no public record.  Many lawyers don't understand the process.  Specifics are hard to find anywhere, but to the extent that they can be found at all - this forum is one of the few sources.

As was stated several times earlier in the thread; Discover will likely go to end of the initial arbitration and the appeal arbitration.  If you go along the whole way, you will learn a lot, but it will be exhausting (unless you enjoy this sort of thing) and it will take up years of your life.   It requires a subjective evaluation of cost vs. benefit.  Only you can decide if it is worth it to you.

Thanks.  From the schedule thus far, it looks like a 20 minute or so pre-conference call, then the initial conference call to set up things like Discovery and depositions, then the Discovery, then in person hearing, and so forth. 

We are indeed researching as much as we can here and elsewhere.  And yes, I get it.  Discover and Gurstel are not going to drop this.  They may offer a settlement and then again they may not.  I know it could take a long time and be stressful.  For now, it is the best option given the costs of a lawyer assisting her with bankruptcy.  We are also waiting to see how many of these lawsuits may be coming our way.  She has one and now possibly a pending second with Capital One.  And I have two now with JDB's for right around $1000.00 each.  I am hoping to get reasonable settlement terms with those, pay those, and continue to save towards bankruptcy.  We are getting by but not by much given I am still only working part time. 

The CM was, however, extremely pleasant with her when she called.  The dates were proposals but not set in stone.  They had no problem offering up a few dates in mid-September which worked no problem for us.  Gurstel, as I predicted, had no problems with the choice either.  So we have a month now to finish the formal complaint, prepare for the initial pre-conference call, and I can finish two filings myself.  I have to have one in for LVNV/Credit One by Monday and I expect soon to be filing with AAA for the Midland (we discussed these in my other threads). 

No, I don't 'enjoy' doing this but I must balance what is occurring, time, our income as it is, and some thing as big as bankruptcy with our future hopeful plans for a life together.  My health is better, and I still don't know where it will be moving forward.  We don't have any assets, savings, etc.  Her one car is paid off and almost 8 years old.  We rent.  And I think the most expensive item I own is a 10 year old digital piano and an 8 year old computer I am typing this on.   :vbsmile:

TM97

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #174 on: August 13, 2017 02:06:06 PM »
I can only speak for myself....

Bankruptcy #1, I didn't know any better, debts were only 12-18 months from SOL and another 12 months from SOLR, and I hadn't been sued.  Had I known about the "FlyingIFR Method" I would have considered continuing to lay low and run out the clock.  I had already frustrated the skip tracer; nobody had anything on me other than a PO Box, which I "forgot" to update when my physical address changed, which is probably why I was never sued.

That said, I don't regret the filing.  Got me a fresh start 12 to 30 months sooner than I otherwise would have had it.

Bankruptcy #2, Debts were all fresh, not even 30 days late yet, but I was well and truly buried, and the process wasn't remotely intimidating since I had already gone through it.  Knew about "FlyingIFR method" by now, but I was easy to find, facing at least six years of battles, and more to the point mentally exhausted from my life situation and pending divorce.  Didn't have it in me to fight.  Easiest decision I ever made.

Nobody can make the decision for you; all I can say is I've never known anyone that regretted it.

Be strategic about it, don't do it if you see more medical bills on the horizon, because you'll be stuck for eight years.   Just keep in mind that three or four months from the day you file you'll be free and clear.  What you do at that point is up to you.

I understand.  My first bankruptcy was with that ex-wife who ran up huge amounts of debt as an alcoholic.  When she refused to get treatment and I saw the possibility of future such financial crises, we divorced.  I was fine for 10 years not even having credit.   

As I said and you know, each situation is unique.  She is ready to file bankruptcy but it is a financial hurdle right now unless she goes pro se.  I hope not to do so given we would then when we got married have two bankruptcies on our immediate record.  That wouldn't be a good thing trying to get a house, a new car, etc.  She did take on much more debt so it makes sense if it continues to head to court to do so.  I have far less, and if I can get reasonable settlements, I can avoid bankruptcy. 

Jane007

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #175 on: August 13, 2017 03:46:49 PM »
And yes, I get it.  Discover and Gurstel are not going to drop this.  They may offer a settlement and then again they may not.  I know it could take a long time and be stressful.  For now, it is the best option given the costs of a lawyer assisting her with bankruptcy.
It does seem that you are proceeding from an informed position with regard to the realistic expectations about the probability of the various outcomes weighed against the time and effort that will be required.

A first arbitration against Discover is not ideal, but as long as you are informed, choosing to go ahead is not necessarily irrational.  Will Discover offer a settlement during either the initial arbitration or the appeal arbitration in your particular case (5k debt)?  From a purely game-theoretical analysis, the JAMS Q1-2016 Consumer Case Information shows that during about the proceeding 18 months, just under 25% of consumer Discover cases went to an award, nearly 50% ended in settlement, 8% were withdrawn, and the remainder were abandoned or some other designation.

25% going to an award is a lot, more than amex and just slightly less than citi.  But 50% ending in settlement is also a lot.  There is no way to know the terms of the settlements.  There may also be a trend that is not reflected in this data (Q1-2016) where more Discover consumer arbitrations are going to an award, based on recent anecdotal reports.

TM97

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #176 on: August 13, 2017 04:27:21 PM »
It does seem that you are proceeding from an informed position with regard to the realistic expectations about the probability of the various outcomes weighed against the time and effort that will be required.

A first arbitration against Discover is not ideal, but as long as you are informed, choosing to go ahead is not necessarily irrational.  Will Discover offer a settlement during either the initial arbitration or the appeal arbitration in your particular case (5k debt)?  From a purely game-theoretical analysis, the JAMS Q1-2016 Consumer Case Information shows that during about the proceeding 18 months, just under 25% of consumer Discover cases went to an award, nearly 50% ended in settlement, 8% were withdrawn, and the remainder were abandoned or some other designation.

25% going to an award is a lot, more than amex and just slightly less than citi.  But 50% ending in settlement is also a lot.  There is no way to know the terms of the settlements.  There may also be a trend that is not reflected in this data (Q1-2016) where more Discover consumer arbitrations are going to an award, based on recent anecdotal reports.

Thank you.  Despite accusation to the contrary, we do get it.  50% ending in settlement is a lot.  That is the best case scenario with BK be the last resort.  If we are truly blessed, then maybe, just maybe, we will be in that 8%.  The lawyer for Gurstel appears to be young, rather inexperienced, and blasse about the proceedings.  That may work to our advantage if we have accessed him properly.  But yes, we are prepared for the worst case and are trying to get more stable financially to deal with any outcome.  :)

CleaningUp

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #177 on: August 13, 2017 04:51:09 PM »
You are going to spend $1K or around that amount for an BK lawyer no matter how long you search.

But if it were to be a no-asset Chapter 7, doing it pro-se might not be the worst thing in the world.  And with Chapter 7 BKs, the credit market is nowhere near as tight as if you had done a 13.  The 8-year prohibition on another bankruptcy is what keeps the taps open.

TM97

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #178 on: August 13, 2017 04:55:03 PM »
You are going to spend $1K or around that amount for an BK lawyer no matter how long you search.

But if it were to be a no-asset Chapter 7, doing it pro-se might not be the worst thing in the world.  And with Chapter 7 BKs, the credit market is nowhere near as tight as if you had done a 13.  The 8-year prohibition on another bankruptcy is what keeps the taps open.

I have been figuring that out, hence the need to save up at least half to get started.  Explain what you mean on the credit market being near as tight between the two.  Thanks.

CleaningUp

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Re: Summons by Gurstel in Arizona Asking for Assistance
« Reply #179 on: August 13, 2017 04:58:25 PM »
Because you cannot declare another bankruptcy for eight years, the creditors are protected from another forced write-off.

This is why people with BK7s on their records can get enough credit to get mortgages for house purchases within a couple of years of the filing.

 

credit