Author Topic: being sued by Zwicker/American Express  (Read 19485 times)

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tvaughn

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #165 on: September 12, 2018 01:30:28 PM »
@flyingifr:  If youíre asking if I read every single thing printed on my billing statements, I definitely do not; however, in this case I never received any billing statements from them after December of 2015, which is odd since I received the data breach letter in February of 2016 and it was dated January 29, 2016.

One thing Iím curious about is that in other threads here people have mentioned the cost of travel and lodging for arbitrators for appeals. How is this relevant if the appeal is going to be decided on the papers and the appeal is being done out of the same office as the orginal arb hearing, which is the office closest to where I live?

BrokeBob

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #166 on: September 13, 2018 03:29:43 PM »
Not every case is identical to every other case.

I live in Wisconsin.  The arbitrators for my area are in Chicago.  That involves travel to and from Chicago as well as one or two nights hotel and meals for each arbitrator, not to mention the travel expenses for the other sodeís attorney. Also rental of a private room in the local courthouse.

If I lived in the Chicago area, those costs would not apply. 

As the saying goes, YMMV.

(Your mileage may vary)

Back to the main point ó at some point, often between the time the other side sees the costs of the hearing and when they pay the costs, you have some leverage for negotiation.  If the costs are lower in your particular case, you may have less leverage.  Of course that depends on the strength of your case, the enthusiasm level of their attorney and all sorts of unpredictable factors. YMMV.

When I went up against AmEx, their attorney was not very enthusiastic once he saw the mistakes AmEx had made.  Once discovery was over he was ready to settle.   You seem to have an AmEx attorney who believes he has a winning case.  So your settlement options will probably not be as good.   Perhaps you should see what settlement they are willing to take when it gets very close to he hearing, realizing as soon as they pay for the hearing your position gets much weaker very quickly.

tvaughn

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #167 on: September 13, 2018 03:35:59 PM »
Not every case is identical to every other case.

I live in Wisconsin.  The arbitrators for my area are in Chicago.  That involves travel to and from Chicago as well as one or two nights hotel and meals for each arbitrator, not to mention the travel expenses for the other sodeís attorney. Also rental of a private room in the local courthouse.

If I lived in the Chicago area, those costs would not apply. 

As the saying goes, YMMV.

(Your mileage may vary)

Back to the main point ó at some point, often between the time the other side sees the costs of the hearing and when they pay the costs, you have some leverage for negotiation.  If the costs are lower in your particular case, you may have less leverage.  Of course that depends on the strength of your case, the enthusiasm level of their attorney and all sorts of unpredictable factors. YMMV.

When I went up against AmEx, their attorney was not very enthusiastic once he saw the mistakes AmEx had made.  Once discovery was over he was ready to settle.   You seem to have an AmEx attorney who believes he has a winning case.  So your settlement options will probably not be as good.   Perhaps you should see what settlement they are willing to take when it gets very close to he hearing, realizing as soon as they pay for the hearing your position gets much weaker very quickly.

Thank you.  So you're saying that what they have already paid (which was classified as filing fee and deposits) is not the last bill they will have to pay?

Clydesmom66

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #168 on: September 13, 2018 07:22:41 PM »
@flyingifr:  If youíre asking if I read every single thing printed on my billing statements, I definitely do not; however, in this case I never received any billing statements from them after December of 2015, which is odd since I received the data breach letter in February of 2016 and it was dated January 29, 2016.

Then based on those dates the data breach occurred just prior to your default. They were required to notify you even if the account was no longer active. 

While you may not scrutinize each listed transaction (which you should anyway) one would think when notified of a data breach you would have immediately gone back and reviewed your statements then to ensure no fraud had affected you. 

One thing Iím curious about is that in other threads here people have mentioned the cost of travel and lodging for arbitrators for appeals. How is this relevant if the appeal is going to be decided on the papers and the appeal is being done out of the same office as the orginal arb hearing, which is the office closest to where I live?

It is irrelevant to how YOUR hearing is being done. 
Be VERY careful following advice from the internet! What worked for someone with thousands of posts on a message board may not work for YOU in your state.  Consult a lawyer when ever possible.

tvaughn

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #169 on: September 13, 2018 07:43:35 PM »
Then based on those dates the data breach occurred just prior to your default. They were required to notify you even if the account was no longer active. 

While you may not scrutinize each listed transaction (which you should anyway) one would think when notified of a data breach you would have immediately gone back and reviewed your statements then to ensure no fraud had affected you. 

It is irrelevant to how YOUR hearing is being done.

Got it.  I didn't know if the appeal was required to be based out of a different office than the original arb hearing.

CleaningUp

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #170 on: September 14, 2018 02:02:51 AM »
Read the arb rules.  If it is not required or prohibited, it is fair game; that's the way "rules" work.

tvaughn

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #171 on: September 14, 2018 02:30:08 AM »
Read the arb rules.  If it is not required or prohibited, it is fair game; that's the way "rules" work.

Ok - thank you.  Just trying to determine if Iíll have another window for settlement negotiations here.  If the other side has already paid all that they are possibly going to have to pay, that changes things a bit.

BrokeBob

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #172 on: September 14, 2018 08:47:02 PM »
Thank you.  So you're saying that what they have already paid (which was classified as filing fee and deposits) is not the last bill they will have to pay?

Maybe not.

If a hearing has not been scheduled, they probably have not paid for the hearing.
There is often a window of negotiation before they pay for the hearing, often best right after they get the bill.
At that point they are looking at the costs of the hearing for 3 arbitrators, as well as their attorney. That is usually your very last chance to negotiate

tvaughn

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #173 on: September 14, 2018 09:45:13 PM »
Maybe not.

If a hearing has not been scheduled, they probably have not paid for the hearing.
There is often a window of negotiation before they pay for the hearing, often best right after they get the bill.
At that point they are looking at the costs of the hearing for 3 arbitrators, as well as their attorney. That is usually your very last chance to negotiate

No hearing has been scheduled.  Thus far we have only been required to send in our briefings and exhibits (mine first, which I have already done).  When do they schedule
the hearing and is it in-person or just over the phone?

CleaningUp

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #174 on: September 15, 2018 12:08:56 AM »
What do the arbitration rules have to say on the subject?

You also might want to get a good handle on who is responsible for what in the appeals process.  There may be a fee-shifting clause if your bad case in court and arbitration finds that it still is a bad case.

Be prepared...It's the Boy Scout's marching song!

tvaughn

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #175 on: September 15, 2018 02:31:49 AM »
What do the arbitration rules have to say on the subject?

You also might want to get a good handle on who is responsible for what in the appeals process.  There may be a fee-shifting clause if your bad case in court and arbitration finds that it still is a bad case.

Be prepared...It's the Boy Scout's marching song!

As far as the fees go, the applicable CMA is clear that I am only responsible for paying fees up
to the filing fees I would have paid to bring a claim in court.  The issue of the appeal being on the papers or an in-person hearing is a little unclear to me because Iím not 100% sure which CMA we are following here. 

CleaningUp

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Re: being sued by Zwicker/American Express
« Reply #176 on: September 15, 2018 02:34:31 AM »
Then, don't you think that you should find out?