Author Topic: Shocking  (Read 1896 times)

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Kento2121

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Shocking
« on: May 01, 2016 01:25:52 AM »
Hi Everyone

So my wife had went to the ER several years ago and had some unpaid balances.  She had medical insurance.   Dont know why she had a bill in the first place, but any how they reported her to collection which Nationwide Recovery Services assume.  They just started reporting so we send them a DV and this was their response plus I'll post a copy of how its been reported.  What do you guys think?

fisthardcheese

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2016 02:56:38 AM »
The first thing I notice is that if you are in FL, this is beyond SOLC, so they can't sue you.  That's a good thing.

That letter is a bit odd, but it clearly states a balance of $0.  What I would do is send a copy of that letter to each CRA reporting this collection and dispute it as something you don't owe and ask them to remove it.  Their response will dictate what I would do next.
11 Arb Settlements (9 AAA, 2 JAMS)
3 JDB Suits Dismissed With Prejudice (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
3 TCPA Settlements (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
2 FCRA Settlements (consumer atty)
1 FDCPA Settlement (w consumer atty)
1 Small Claims Win (pro-se; Landlord/state consumer law violations)
1 State UDAP Settlement (ITS)
1 Federal PTC Settlement (before hearing; pro-se)

Flyingifr

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2016 06:22:43 PM »
The first thing I notice is that if you are in FL, this is beyond SOLC, so they can't sue you.  That's a good thing.

That letter is a bit odd, but it clearly states a balance of $0.  What I would do is send a copy of that letter to each CRA reporting this collection and dispute it as something you don't owe and ask them to remove it.  Their response will dictate what I would do next.

The statement showing a Zero balance does not mean the account balance was actually zero - it was how they charged the balance off to a Bad Debt account.
BTW-the Flyingifr Method does work. (quoted from Hannah on Infinite Credit, September 19, 2006)

I think of a telephone as a Debt Collector's crowbar. With such a device it is possible to pry one's mouth open wide enough to allow the insertion of a foot or two.

Debtors Exams are the perfect place for us Senior Citizens to show off our recently acquired Alzheimers.

Founder of the Credit Terrorist Training Camp (Debtorboards)

fisthardcheese

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2016 06:34:34 PM »
The statement showing a Zero balance does not mean the account balance was actually zero - it was how they charged the balance off to a Bad Debt account.

Yes, but this CA's letter says "Amount due $0"  and at the same time the same CA is reporting to the CRAs that there is a balance owed of $402. 

If they charged off the $400, it would still technically be owed, but that's not what the letter says.
11 Arb Settlements (9 AAA, 2 JAMS)
3 JDB Suits Dismissed With Prejudice (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
3 TCPA Settlements (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
2 FCRA Settlements (consumer atty)
1 FDCPA Settlement (w consumer atty)
1 Small Claims Win (pro-se; Landlord/state consumer law violations)
1 State UDAP Settlement (ITS)
1 Federal PTC Settlement (before hearing; pro-se)

Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2016 02:26:20 PM »
Was it sold? That would result in a zero balance as well.
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

fisthardcheese

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016 02:27:34 PM »
Was it sold? That would result in a zero balance as well.

If it was sold, then they still have a FCRA violation by reporting that a balance is owed to this CA.
11 Arb Settlements (9 AAA, 2 JAMS)
3 JDB Suits Dismissed With Prejudice (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
3 TCPA Settlements (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
2 FCRA Settlements (consumer atty)
1 FDCPA Settlement (w consumer atty)
1 Small Claims Win (pro-se; Landlord/state consumer law violations)
1 State UDAP Settlement (ITS)
1 Federal PTC Settlement (before hearing; pro-se)

Ximat

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2016 03:40:30 PM »
I had a letter similar to this on a debt several years ago.  It was like gold.  Since I am not an accountant and unfamiliar with general accounting practices, the letter told me, the consumer, that I owed ZERO on it.  Each time a different CA sent me a letter, I would send them a copy of it, they would disappear.


Clydesmom66

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2016 03:52:18 PM »
She had medical insurance.   Dont know why she had a bill in the first place

2 possible reasons:  the first one is NO insurance plan pays 100% of any hospital visit anymore.  Even for the ER there is usually a co-pay which is only waived if the patient is admitted to the hospital.  If the visit turns out to be non-emergency then the percentage of out of pocket expense goes up in addition to the co-pay all of which is AFTER the deductible for the year.

Looking at the CA bill it is from the ER physician.  In many ERs the doctors are not employees of the hospital but instead are a contracted group and they bill separately from the facility.  If their bill arrived before the hospital and she had not met the deductible for the year then that amount wasn't covered and was applied to the deductible.  Or, they are not in network for your plan and that is the amount not covered by the carrier.

If they were out of network the time to appeal that with the carrier was 6 years ago when she went to the ER.  The time to appeal any claim has long since expired.  Keep this in mind for future issues because when a patient goes to the ER they have NO choice on which group is providing the service and it is possible to appeal to the carrier that due to that issue the physician's bill should be covered as in network regardless.  You may have to appeal the claim to make it happen though.
Be VERY careful following advice from the internet! What worked for someone with thousands of posts on a message board may not work for YOU in your state.  Consult a lawyer when ever possible.

fisthardcheese

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016 04:53:47 PM »
2 possible reasons:  the first one is NO insurance plan pays 100% of any hospital visit anymore.  Even for the ER there is usually a co-pay which is only waived if the patient is admitted to the hospital.  If the visit turns out to be non-emergency then the percentage of out of pocket expense goes up in addition to the co-pay all of which is AFTER the deductible for the year.

Looking at the CA bill it is from the ER physician.  In many ERs the doctors are not employees of the hospital but instead are a contracted group and they bill separately from the facility.  If their bill arrived before the hospital and she had not met the deductible for the year then that amount wasn't covered and was applied to the deductible.  Or, they are not in network for your plan and that is the amount not covered by the carrier.

If they were out of network the time to appeal that with the carrier was 6 years ago when she went to the ER.  The time to appeal any claim has long since expired.  Keep this in mind for future issues because when a patient goes to the ER they have NO choice on which group is providing the service and it is possible to appeal to the carrier that due to that issue the physician's bill should be covered as in network regardless.  You may have to appeal the claim to make it happen though.

Basically, it boils down to all medical bills being part of a shell game designed to fleece consumers and then confuse and frustrate them when they try to figure out who is billing for what services or if they are being double or triple billed (as it often seems) for some medical procedure. None of which is the fault of the consumer.
11 Arb Settlements (9 AAA, 2 JAMS)
3 JDB Suits Dismissed With Prejudice (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
3 TCPA Settlements (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
2 FCRA Settlements (consumer atty)
1 FDCPA Settlement (w consumer atty)
1 Small Claims Win (pro-se; Landlord/state consumer law violations)
1 State UDAP Settlement (ITS)
1 Federal PTC Settlement (before hearing; pro-se)

wombat_ma

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2016 09:13:05 PM »
Basically, it boils down to all medical bills being part of a shell game designed to fleece consumers and then confuse and frustrate them when they try to figure out who is billing for what services or if they are being double or triple billed (as it often seems) for some medical procedure. None of which is the fault of the consumer.

This is exactly the way it is. Could not have stated it better.
I am not an attorney. My posts here are not legal advice.

The Litigator

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2016 05:44:14 PM »
I understand this letter but can see how the least sophisticated consumer could be confused with the ZERO balance.

I recommend you DV this outfit. They will probably fold and the TL will disappear. I had a $300 medical debt similar to this that bounced to five difference CA's before dying.

11181986

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2016 08:05:31 PM »
It is a very common accounting practice, especially in the medical world.  However, it can most definitely lead to confusing debtors and even third parties (judges, lawyers, etc). The least sophisticated consumer is not going to have any idea about GAAP, and I definitely think a FDCPA claim is viable for misrepresenting the balance of an account.

Kento2121

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016 12:37:45 AM »
So with all this being said I sent the CRAs a dispute letter hoping to land a victory of deletion.  I will update this thread with any new info that is fort coming. :drinking:

CleaningUp

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2016 03:42:14 PM »

Basically, it boils down to all medical bills being part of a shell game designed to fleece consumers and then confuse and frustrate them when they try to figure out who is billing for what services or if they are being double or triple billed (as it often seems) for some medical procedure. None of which is the fault of the consumer.



I understand your frustrations, but please, at least put some accuracy in your railings.  You have absolutely no evidence that all of this is an intentional effort either to deceive or to fleece the consumer. 

If you DO have such evidence, Debtorboards is NOT the place to be airing it.  Your attorney general or district attorney is the proper one.

These machinations are legal ones, ones designed specifically to separate and distinguish legal liability for medical care that goes wrong, horribly or otherwise.

The hospitals don't want the liability of doctors making mistakes so they do all they can to make sure that there is a legal line between the two.

The doctors don't want the liability of nurses and hospitals making mistakes so they do all they can to make sure that there is a legal line between the two.

What you see in the billings is the accounting consequences of the flight from those liabilities.  Nothing more, nothing less.


fisthardcheese

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Re: Shocking
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2016 05:34:00 PM »

I understand your frustrations, but please, at least put some accuracy in your railings.  You have absolutely no evidence that all of this is an intentional effort either to deceive or to fleece the consumer. 

If you DO have such evidence, Debtorboards is NOT the place to be airing it.  Your attorney general or district attorney is the proper one.

These machinations are legal ones, ones designed specifically to separate and distinguish legal liability for medical care that goes wrong, horribly or otherwise.

The hospitals don't want the liability of doctors making mistakes so they do all they can to make sure that there is a legal line between the two.

The doctors don't want the liability of nurses and hospitals making mistakes so they do all they can to make sure that there is a legal line between the two.

What you see in the billings is the accounting consequences of the flight from those liabilities.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I never said it was illegal.  There are plenty of legal rackets designed and written into law by the government, insurance companies and other large corporations.
11 Arb Settlements (9 AAA, 2 JAMS)
3 JDB Suits Dismissed With Prejudice (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
3 TCPA Settlements (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
2 FCRA Settlements (consumer atty)
1 FDCPA Settlement (w consumer atty)
1 Small Claims Win (pro-se; Landlord/state consumer law violations)
1 State UDAP Settlement (ITS)
1 Federal PTC Settlement (before hearing; pro-se)