Author Topic: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft  (Read 11044 times)

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Yescat

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DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« on: March 07, 2016 01:17:13 PM »
This is worded so the CA/Lawyer will send as much documentation as they have available to them. It also insinuates they may lose it all to an ID theft claim without actually claiming it. Will let you know what happens.


I am in receipt of your letter dated XXX and received by me on XXX. USPS Certified Receipt #XXXXX


   I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety.  Please validate.

   It is inconvenient for me to receive telephone calls at any time, to any number or any place.  You may contact me by mail.

   If there is an underlying arbitration clause associated with this claim, I hereby exercise it, and waive your litigation rights to this claim, per the underlying arbitration clause.

   This account may not be mine or ID theft related.  Please supply all account records, including personal addresses, Billing addresses, copy of account application with Signature and history of transactions and payments.

Thank you,

CleaningUp

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016 01:25:33 PM »
Interesting approach.

A loser, but interesting nonetheless.

When it comes to the pushing and shoving of law suit, YOU are the one that is going to have establish...to the preponderance of the evidence...that it is, indeed, identity theft.  After all, you'll be the one that is raising it as a defense.

You seem to like sailing too close to the wind.  It's been proven time and again that it is better to sail the longer course faster than the shorter course much more slowly.


Yescat

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2016 01:42:59 PM »
Interesting approach.

A loser, but interesting nonetheless.

When it comes to the pushing and shoving of law suit, YOU are the one that is going to have establish...to the preponderance of the evidence...that it is, indeed, identity theft.  After all, you'll be the one that is raising it as a defense.

You seem to like sailing too close to the wind.  It's been proven time and again that it is better to sail the longer course faster than the shorter course much more slowly.

In the past "sailing close" has worked for me. I've used answers to lawsuits that people here would think were crazy but they worked. It got them to to file a voluntary dismissal. Rico, asking the judge for permission to allow reporters in the courtroom, elder abuse, taking advantage of the disabled, etc. The court didn't care I'm sure but the CA's obviously didn't need the complications. As I'm sure you well know, they're looking for the easy mark. Those cases never got resold either. Besides, I'm judgement proof like everyone should be. Why not experiment?

However in my experience new ideas are usually not welcomed in these forums so most of what I do I keep to myself.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016 01:51:26 PM by Yescat »

Yescat

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2016 01:45:48 PM »
delete
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016 01:49:55 PM by Yescat »

fisthardcheese

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016 01:51:54 PM »
In the past "sailing close" has worked for me. I've used answers to lawsuits that people here would think were crazy but they worked. It got them to to file a voluntary dismissal. Rico, asking the judge for permission to allow reporters in the courtroom, elder abuse, taking advantage of the disabled, etc. The court didn't care I'm sure but the CA's obviously didn't need the complications. As I'm sure you well know, they're looking for the easy mark. Those cases never got resold either. Besides I'm judgement proof like everyone should be.

However in my experience new ideas are usually not welcomed in these forums so most of what I do I keep to myself.

You can play with fire many times and never get burned.  It's just that one time you set yourself on fire that is the b*tch.
11 Arb Settlements (9 AAA, 2 JAMS)
3 JDB Suits Dismissed With Prejudice (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
3 TCPA Settlements (2 pro-se, 1 consumer atty)
2 FCRA Settlements (consumer atty)
1 FDCPA Settlement (w consumer atty)
1 Small Claims Win (pro-se; Landlord/state consumer law violations)
1 State UDAP Settlement (ITS)
1 Federal PTC Settlement (before hearing; pro-se)

Yescat

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016 03:09:50 PM »
Interesting approach.

A loser, but interesting nonetheless.

When it comes to the pushing and shoving of law suit, YOU are the one that is going to have establish...to the preponderance of the evidence...that it is, indeed, identity theft.  After all, you'll be the one that is raising it as a defense.


The purpose isn't to use it as a defense. It's to make the case more difficult than the average one that comes across their desk. Isn't that the reason to ask for arbitration? To make it a "poison pill" for them.

But some people here want to get sued. That's understandable IF you have violations against them. But if the debt is new and of high value I wouldn't think you would want them to continue to collect on it.

Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2016 03:13:11 PM »
"May be" never works. You have to claim ID theft through the police, and there is a statute of limitations on it as it is a crime. Filing a false ID theft complaint is also a crime.

 New ideas are not shunned here. It's just that what you may think is a novel approach has been tried here a hundred times and the rate of success is appallingly low.
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

Yescat

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016 06:53:24 PM »
"May be" never works. You have to claim ID theft through the police, and there is a statute of limitations on it as it is a crime. Filing a false ID theft complaint is also a crime.

 New ideas are not shunned here. It's just that what you may think is a novel approach has been tried here a hundred times and the rate of success is appallingly low.

One of the ways they can validate is with account records but I've found they usually don't. When sending a DV letter I always asked for account records and the signed application. Maybe 20% of the time I've gotten it. If you say you need it to determine if it's identity theft or not it isn't filing a false complaint at all. How is someone supposed to know if an unrecognized account is the result of error, a merged file or ID theft if they aren't supplied with account records? The ID theft affidavit also asks if "This account was opened fraudulently" or "This was an existing account that someone tampered with." How would you know if they don't send you account records?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016 07:07:25 PM by Yescat »

Bruno the JDB Killer

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016 07:26:13 PM »
They will argue that you were given monthly statements and that you never disputed any of the charges in a timely manner as ID theft. The account statements will show all the charges. Are there any that were made in places you don't shop, or states you never visited?

What I was referring to is the fact that if you file an ID theft complaint with the police when you know it is not true, it is a crime. Unless you have some really solid evidence, it's best to leave this alone.
I am not an attorney. Any information I post is strictly my opinion and should be treated as such.

Clydesmom66

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2016 07:51:46 PM »
One of the ways they can validate is with account records but I've found they usually don't. When sending a DV letter I always asked for account records and the signed application. Maybe 20% of the time I've gotten it.

The major problem is NOTHING in the FDCPA requires they provide any documentation what so ever unless it is a copy of a judgment they have against you.  If you got those documents even 20% of the time you got lucky. 

ALL they have to provide in DV with you is the name/address of the original creditor and they amount they allege you owe.  Even then they only have to provide that if you DV in the first 30 days after initial contact. 

While they CAN validate with records the law does not require them to and not giving you those records doesn't make continued collection efforts a violation.
Be VERY careful following advice from the internet! What worked for someone with thousands of posts on a message board may not work for YOU in your state.  Consult a lawyer when ever possible.

Yescat

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2016 09:58:54 PM »
They will argue that you were given monthly statements and that you never disputed any of the charges in a timely manner as ID theft. The account statements will show all the charges. Are there any that were made in places you don't shop, or states you never visited?

What I was referring to is the fact that if you file an ID theft complaint with the police when you know it is not true, it is a crime. Unless you have some really solid evidence, it's best to leave this alone.

I don't think most of them have account statements. Although I read somewhere there was a law that said the OC now had to provide that to the CA. Not sure if that's true. None of the ones who  provided me with account statements ever sued me. The ones that did sue me could not come up with anything on discovery demands. But that was close to 20 years ago. Maybe now a days they are provided that from the OC.

CleaningUp

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2016 10:59:18 PM »

I don't think most of them have account statements. Although I read somewhere there was a law that said the OC now had to provide that to the CA.



As Clydesdale says, the bar for validation from a CA is pathetically low, and anything that you got beyond that is pure serendipity.

BTW, I do know the answer to the question as to whether or not there is a statute requiring the collector to provide something, but I'm not going to do your work for you.

RocketGoBoom

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2016 01:00:10 AM »
Interesting approach.

A loser, but interesting nonetheless.

When it comes to the pushing and shoving of law suit, YOU are the one that is going to have establish...to the preponderance of the evidence...that it is, indeed, identity theft.  After all, you'll be the one that is raising it as a defense.


Generally an ID Theft claim can be established with just two items.

1) Fill out the FTC ID theft addidavit
2) File a police report at your local police department

With those two items, you have created a legitimate ID Theft report and have established basically all that you need.

You are not required to find proof that you are in fact the victim of ID Theft.

Merely creating those two items above is sufficient for the process.

https://www.ftc.gov/faq/consumer-protection/report-identity-theft

https://www.identitytheft.gov/
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016 01:08:28 AM by RocketGoBoom »

Yescat

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2016 01:55:57 AM »
Generally an ID Theft claim can be established with just two items.

1) Fill out the FTC ID theft addidavit
2) File a police report at your local police department

With those two items, you have created a legitimate ID Theft report and have established basically all that you need.

You are not required to find proof that you are in fact the victim of ID Theft.

Merely creating those two items above is sufficient for the process.

https://www.ftc.gov/faq/consumer-protection/report-identity-theft

https://www.identitytheft.gov/

Although the CRA will probably give you a hard time, technically you don't even need a police report. Read the statute and look at section 20 and 22 of the affidavit. In my state the police aren't required to take a report so many refuse. Some only allow online reports that generate a report number but you still have no signature from a police officer. If you go on the police websites you will see on many of them a statement that the cardholder is not the victim of ID theft. So they don't even see you as a victim. <REMOVED> who's trying to clean up your credit. I found this quote copied to several police websites...

"The cardholder is the victim of the theft of the card only. Even though a credit card is issued to a cardholder, the issuing credit card company or financial institution (e.g., Visa, MasterCard, an issuing bank, etc.) has total control over their credit account and only extends the privilege of its use to the assigned cardholder(s). A cardholder is not deemed to be a victim of the fraudulent use of the credit card(s) solely by having their name embossed on the card. The credit card company or financial institution issuing this card will normally be the victim of any fraudulent use of the card. The victim of the crime known as fraudulent use of a credit card is determined by whomever ultimately suffers the financial loss."


States that do not require police to file a report : http://www.theiacp.org/idsafety/files/swf/map.swf

ID Theft Affidavit (see section 20 and 22) https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/pdf-0094-identity-theft-affidavit.pdf





Admin Note:   Inappropriate language removed.   :tos:

« Last Edit: March 08, 2016 01:57:30 PM by Admin0248 »

RocketGoBoom

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Re: DV Letter With Possibility of ID Theft
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2016 04:53:47 AM »
Once you make a claim of ID theft in your dispute letter, even with no proof, then an entire new set of issues becomes in play with the target of your letter.

I am going from memory here. But I recall that they cannot sell the debt to a 3rd party if there is any claim of ID theft involved. The ID theft doesn't need to be proven. Merely by raising the issue with your DV letter, that makes the account unsalable and it must stay with wherever it current is parked. It would then be fraud for a JDB or even an original creditor to sell a debt where there is a possible ID theft issue.

I recall also some additional responsibilities on the provider of info in terms of what they are no longer allowed to report to credit bureaus if someone makes a claim of identity theft.

If it gets to lawsuit, that is another realm of YMMV. All bets are off.

However the letter process of just dealing with CAs, JDBs or OCs is much more flexible. I agree with the OP that making a tentative claim of possible ID Theft is a very effective tactic at gumming up their process and bringing it to a halt.

Once the issue is raised, the most likely outcome is that their collection process will be frozen and the acct gets put into another category that is much lower priority. They will likely send you their own version of the FTC affidavit.

 

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